Look out Copper! Anybody see this?

Just saw this on Markertek's e-mailer. Technology just keeps on rollin'!!!

Look Out Copper - Here Comes ElectriPlast.

Bellingham, Washington based company, Integral Technologies has created a conductive polymer which will enable new wiring that is 80 percent lighter than copper, yet provides the same level of conductivity. Dubbed ElectriPlast, the material is created by blending metal coated micron-scaled fibers into a polymer matrix. The fibers, which are 7-12 microns in diameter, are coated with copper, silver or gold and are grouped into bundles that equal the equivalent traditional wire gauge. Once blended, ElectriPlast is supplied in a pellet form which can be molded or formed into any shape, including that of traditional wires, cables or even entire conductive surfaces. According to the company, the material offers a broader bandwidth than solid metal cables due to having proportionately more surface area size for size. This results in the ability for manufacturers to design and make numerous styles of light weight cables, harnesses or boards for industries such as broadcast, entertainment, aerospace, automotive and medical applications. While no pricing details have been made available at this time, Integral expects to be announcing customers and availability for the new conductive polymer by early 2009.

I am sure that Monster Inc. is already investigating any "directional" properties.

Seriously, if viable, this could be incredible.  Just imagine what you could do with 3D flexible PC boards?  Or wiring incorporated into clothing?  A shirt with magnets and microcoils could generate enough juice to charge a cell phone.

And the wires would probably terminate with a glue instead of solder.
Mike

I don't have time at the moment to investigate what the real truth is, but I can assure anyone that Electroplast's claims are comparable to faster than light travel or a perpetual motion machine.  I would like to hear a good explanation for how a bundle of copper micro "wires" (which are only copper coated fibers) in a polymer matrix can be more conductive and less dense than the same diameter bulk copper wire.  Horseshit.

My company offers a printable (but not moldable) conductor that reaches 2x the bulk resistivity of silver/copper.  The biggest difference between our material and Electroplast is that ours can actually do what we say it can do. 

http://www.nanopchem.com/index.html

-Chris

If it is as good as the claims, I wonder what the price will be... could be cost prohibitive for many applications.

> Just saw this on Markertek's e-mailer.

Solid investigative journalism?

I don't see the mechanics of the idea until you get far into the GHz range where current flows funny.

Many people invested, and they are not feeling good about lack of communication and 3rd-party testing:
http://electriplast.blogspot.com/

I'm not an RF Engineer.  I don't even claim to play an RF engineer on TV.  I'm not even an electrical engineer (but I have built a G9 and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express).  I have however worked with a lot of high surface area conductors (micron flake based polymer thick films and sintered nano metals with sponge-like bulk morphology).  In my experience, there has been no advantage to the increased surface areas for 900MHz RFID antennae.  This was for fine metal conductors in air, oil, and polymer dielectric matrices.  In fact, the added roughness would adversely effect the Q of the antenna and the effective read range for the tag was reduced.  Parallel bundles of  "wires" may behave differently of course.

I'm currently working with a couple of sharp RF guys at Drexel.  Next time I see them, I'll bounce this off of them and see what they think.

-Chris

> I have ...stayed at a Holiday Inn Express

I have not done that; my musing about GHz is utter ignorance.

> "blending metal coated micron-scaled fibers into a polymer matrix."

On geometric grounds: all "polymers" I know about, even "conductive polymers", have conductivity ten to a zillion times worst than common metals. Such a material doped with metallic "fibers", must have lower conductivity than the metal. Therefore "lighter than copper, yet provides the same level of conductivity" does not make sense to my mind.

A left-field argument: loudspeaker voice coils must be light, small, and conductive. Mass is waste energy, resistance is waste energy, and bulk determines the amount of costly Alnico etc you must buy.

Considering only conductivity to mass, the three best materials are Lithium, Aluminum, and Copper. Forget Lithium, dangerous! Aluminum is low mass but high bulk; favored for light-coil high-buck designs. But Copper is not much worse, and its ready availability and solderability means 98+% of loudspeakers use Copper.

A material with conductivity comparable to Copper, but "80% lighter", would overturn much loudspeaker design. Bulk and heat resistance are still open questions, but "80% lighter" is a heck of a feature. Speaker engineers would be pounding on the door, sneaking in the window, to check it out. Maybe they are, but it is a well-kept secret.

> My company

That's an interesting site. Especially the paper on conductivity measurement, its misconceptions and pitfalls. I know nothing about ElectriPlast's technology, but it seems possible they got a great number from a small sample with a flawed technique and fooled themselves.

Anyway: their claims of "bandwidth" and my musing on GHz come from the notion of Skin Effect and how VHF currents flow more on surface-area than cross-section. As you say, a ragged surface might spoil much of any advantage. Anyway the main use of GHz signals is to throw them into the air, "wireless radio". Therefore conductors tend to be as short as possible. Losses and weight are generally minor. In apps like iPhones, bulk and cost are dominant. And if 99.9% of the conductivity comes from the metal (as seems likely), then re-forming metal as micron fibers then diluting in polymer seems like a bulky expensive way to go.

There are a bunch of guys who bought ElectriPlast on the way up at $4, are seeing it now at ~~~$0.70, and hoping the Big Announcement and Major Contract come real soon now, as ElectriPlast said a while back. Personally, I doubt this specific concept has legs. But you never know what else might come out of the work. Maybe micro-metal fibers in polymer would make a decorative cellphone case and add pizazz to cellphone sales. Maybe it takes more stress per gram/penny than other plastics and is good for parts that break.

The idea that the MarkerTec wire/cable catalog will be all polymer real soon, or that a 2012 Honda will have plastic power wire to the cigar lighter, seems absurd.

The most conductive polymers are a few orders of magnitude away from silver/copper, somewhere around the conductivity of germanium.  Also, there is a big trade-off between conductivity and just about every other desirable physical property, so add in that fudge factor.

>>>That's an interesting site. Especially the paper on conductivity measurement, its misconceptions and pitfalls.

Now I know why PRR knows almost everything.  In addition to being a really smart cookie with a few miles on his shoes, he reads everything thrown at him.  I wasn't even aware that my paper was up on the website yet.  And I did "read" my own website  ;D.  I need more hours in the day....

-Chris

Emperor-TK said:

  I need more hours in the day....
-Chris

Click to expand...

Of course you know that a typical "PRR day" contains at least 72 hrs in his Universe  !! 

On the 7th day, the Lord rested.  PRR reread the RDH4.

Chuck Norris ain't got nuthin' on PRR.