Mix through GSSL

[riggler]

I have GSSL boards and a turbo boaard that have been sitting for two years! I WILL get around to building it but things just keep coming up!! Like DIY mics, preamps....

...and life...

Anyway, 2 part question:

1. Would anyone be willing to run one of my mixes through a GSSL just so I can hear it? If you want I'll just send a clip instead of a whole song. Just really curious if I should move this to the top of the list.

2. Has anyone used their GSSL or other mix-buss compressor over the master fader stereo insert in their DAW and mixed through it, from the beginning of the session? (Versus applying it after-the-fact)

I'd think less drastic track compression would result. Curious!

This is a cool forum!

UPDATE:

Here's a link so you can download the results of various flavors of GSSL and 1176 on the mixes:

http://www.righirecording.com/DIY/LimiterTests.Zip

[Biasrocks]

I have GSSL boards and a turbo boaard that have been sitting for two years! I WILL get around to building it but things just keep coming up!! Like DIY mics, preamps....

...and life...

Anyway, 2 part question:

1. Would anyone be willing to run one of my mixes through a GSSL just so I can hear it? If you want I'll just send a clip instead of a whole song. Just really curious if I should move this to the top of the list.

2. Has anyone used their GSSL or other mix-buss compressor over the master fader stereo insert in their DAW and mixed through it, from the beginning of the session? (Versus applying it after-the-fact)

I'd think less drastic track compression would result. Curious!

This is a cool forum!

Sure, send me a .wav file, the higher res the better (I can accept up 24/96) and I'll run it through compressor.

email: mark [-a t-]- sharktankpro [- d o t - ] com

Mark

[abechap024]

if you want to hear your mixes through a 1176 mnats email abe @ acsounstudio.com
if you want my opinion - it rocks, along with the gssl!
Cheers
AC

[abechap024]

in response to your second question. I think many many people have mixed through a ssl master buss compressor. Charles Dye is known for doing this (mix it like a record). Though he did not even come close to inventing the technique, its been used for a long time. And as they say....oh wait i don't eve nwant to say it......ok it helps "glue" the mix together. there I said it
it does.
try it
Demo the SSL plugin or something. The GSSL for all practical purposes sounds very very much like it
Build it! it will be one of the best things you've done for your recordings!!!
Cheers

[mac]

Hey Riggler,
I am happy to run it through mine (with SSC as well). I can give it some different G1176 passes as well for comparison.

Just shoot me an email with your .wav (or link).

Mac

[abechap024]

haha it looks like i'm not the only one around here with hungry DIY equipment!

[Biasrocks]

Demo the SSL plugin or something. The GSSL for all practical purposes sounds very very much like it

I have not found ITB comps to behave like the real deal unless you're applying very minimal amounts of gain reduction.

I have the GLUE plugin and while it sounds very good and has some of the SSL vibe it tends to fold up and sound small when pushing anymore than say 2-3db of compression. URS is alright and the Waves SSL comp is unusable imo and I have not heard Digi's Smack plugin so no comment on that one.

My SSL comp has the real deal 202C's in the signal path and some other tweaks to make it sound more like bus comp, so that may very well be the difference.

Anyway, the offers still open.

Mark

[abechap024]

I'm talking about the Waves SSL version of the plugin, and when I was doing listening test I was applying up to 4db of compression on the master buss. The Gssl sounded rounder and more "vibey". the plug in sounded more analytical and clean, then again my gssl doesn't have the dbx202 (thumbs for scoring those!) but I still hold firm, for all practical purposes - your not going to make or break a mix, just by using one or the other. I prefer Vibe to analytical any day and for most all mixes choose the GSSL for most the work.
I agree though once you start applying more than 5 or so DB of compressions the analog ssls' sound much much better.
AC

[riggler]

Wow this is cool guys! I will upload a file tonight and post it here. If we can keep this thread organized, it would be cool if you could post your files back documenting what limiter / compressor was used. Then I'll take all the files and bring them together and edit the first post with everything in one place, nice and organized. My good friend and client Billy Bauer has approved the use of one of his songs from his new CD we're working on for this, so props to Billy.

BTW, in the mix I will be posting, the drum subgroup is running through a "real" 1178 fairly lightly. I will bypass all plugs on the master stereo buss so you have the mix right before final limiting. Pretty darn close to a real-world scenario. This is exciting.

Will be in touch!

[riggler]

OK guys,

The files are on their way up, should finish uploading tonight around 8:00PM EST.

MaybeMore.wav is the mix with no mix buss compression, but with all original track and drum buss compression.
MaybeLess.wav is the mix with no mix buss compression, but with all track compression reduced.

Very curious to what comes out of this!

http://www.righirecording.com/DIY/MaybeMore.wav
http://www.righirecording.com/DIY/MaybeLess.wav

Each file is about 75MB in size. 48kHz, 24bit. There are some slight timing issues, and I didn't go crazy autotuning the vocals, but I think it should still be a pretty good test tune! Any critiques welcome of course.

The G9 with GE 5 Star ECC82's on just about everything. Vox in a big room with a Sony C48, guitar and drum overheads with MXL603s with the Gus mods, lots of old RE15s through Rane MS1bs and stuff on the rest of the drums. Bass through the G9 DI. Keyboards are from a cheap Casio that everybody liked. I really like this song. The version that's being released is different from this one so it's cool to do something with this mix that otherwise wouldn't get "out there"...

[abechap024]

First of all Great song! Really enjoyed listening to it. This was sent through 2 gSSLs...sorry if I got a bit carried away, its just such a dynamic song I didn't want to kill its presence...so first gssl was mixed with with unproscessed audio then both were send through to the second Gssl. All the my Quantum board. Well keep up the great recording. Hope this helps
Regards
AC

oh yea the file www.acsoundstudio.com/DIY/MaybeLessSSL.mp3

sorry had the wrong link! its fixed now

[riggler]

Wow it is like glue man! Very nice!! Man how did it add width? The mix sounds wider to me?!!

OK I don't get the two-GSSL thing?!

But yes it sounds GREAT! (I admit the drums are a little hot in the "less" version, too much make up gain left dialed in after reducing the compressing ratio on kick / snare channels)

*Slightest* bit pumping but it's musical and I dig it! Please explain the idea behind two compressors??

[Biasrocks]

Hmmm, that MP3 track is clipped like crazy! That's obviously not how you'd use the comp in a mix bus situation.

You can see the severe clipping here, my GSSL compressed track at the top, MP3 at the bottom.



Anyway here's your two examples run through my GSSL at 4:1 ratio with 30ms attack, auto release, pulling about 4db max which is how I would normally set up the comp for the type of mix bus duty.

Your second non-compressed track was severely clipped at the end, which is probably not an entirely good thing. I realize that you probably just bypassed the comps when you printed it and that's why the levels are skewed.

Anyway here's your two examples, 24 bit, 48kHz.

http://sharktankpro.com/GDIY/GSSL/GSSLTest-MaybeMore.wav
http://sharktankpro.com/GDIY/GSSL/GSSLTest-MaybeLess.wav

Mark

[abechap024]

Well the thing about mixing THROUGH a mix buss compressor - is you do just that, its hard to put a mix through a mix buss comp after the fact and expect that's what your mix would sound like if you mixed through the compressor from the beginning. With that in mind I tried to make the mix sound the best it could to me. My console has 8 busses and buss 7/8 are jensen transformer out, so I sent the stereo mix through channels 7 and 8 and put an SSL over the MASTER out. I usually like ratio at 2:1 attack at 10ms and release at 300ms. Then it sounded ok, but  I sent the track to another 2 busses (1/2) and put another SSL over that stereo buss. I think I used something more aggressive like 1ms and 100ms release to get more sound out of it. Then I mixed that compressed stereo track with the unprocessed stereo track through the MASTER compressor and was getting more of a sound I liked. Again with the whole Idea of mixing through a compressor, You CAN use parallel compression in a Mix buss situation, actually its probably one of the best places to use parallel compression. But its all up to your taste. And they use parallel compression in mastering a lot but it gets used just as much in mixing, and their was a GSSL over the final 2 buss, so It still gives you a good Idea what the SSL sounds like, well two of them actually:-) . The SSL comps are very versatile. so have we convinced you to finish building yours!  :
AC

[abechap024]

Yea, I guess I could've been a little quieter on the return in to my sound card. I usually print things on the HOT side because I have OPA2134s on the input of my A/D card and I found that the FET input clips in a pleasant way. But obviously not the "right" way of doing it. but that's just how I do it, for the time being...
though I never record actual tracks that way...just final mixes...weird
AC


--wait thats TOO hot. I must of bounced it to a file too hot or something, I usually am on the hot side but that is like really hot. I can't tell if its distorting because i'm on a laptop with k240 headphones that this thing can barely drive. I'll head back into the studio tonight and check, it should not look MASTERIZED. I geuss I should listen to the file after I bounce it. I was using FL studio

Ok I feel like a Smeg head! Turns out when I bounced the file to MP3 FL Studio automatically reset the master fader when I had it turned it down to about -10 db. So now I copied the new file over the old one - its the same file just not clipping the smeg outta the digital buss (yuck!)...:-P Thanks for catching that Sharktank, I didn't listen to the whole MP3 before I uploaded.

[mulletchuck]

hey, would anyone be willing to do this same test, but with a track that uses virtual instruments only?

[Biasrocks]

hey, would anyone be willing to do this same test, but with a track that uses virtual instruments only?

Sure, send me a link.

Mark

[SSLtech]

...he did not even come close to inventing the technique, its been used for a long time.

I believe the method was basically 'invented' by Colin Sanders, when he designed the first SSL console, which was the first large-format recording console ever to have a buss compressor permanently mounted across the master fader.

The very first thing that occurred to every new SSL used in the 1970's was "Wow!!!! -I can have this fantastic mix bus compressor across the buss -either all the time, or at the push of a button, without adding ANY circuitry!"

The rest was history.

Keith

[abechap024]

Colin Sanders. Brilliant. is he still alive?
AC

[abechap024]

Hey Riggler,
I had some questions on the mix, mainly is that reverb sound added or part of the big room? I really like the ambiance of this mix and how everything sounds like its in the same space but still lots of depth. Just curious
AC