Laser Engraver

[ruffrecords]

Are these any good for PCBs and front panels?? They seem to be reasonably priced:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-PRECISE-AND-HIGH-SPEED-USB-CO2-LASER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-CUTTING-MACHINE-i6-/260879170860?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cbd9c3d2c#ht_13962wt_1185

Cheers

IAn

[Paultec]

I don't see why not...

Like all things in life, you get what you pay for.

Maybe ask the seller to send you a sample of the machines output to see if it's precise enough for your needs.

Regards

Paul

[gemini86]

Most regular lasers only reflect off copper or so I've read.

[Ptownkid]

From all I've read...the chinese machines are hit or miss when they come straight from china. The ones that people are happy with are ones that a reseller has bought, tested and upgraded.

BTW, you won't fit a front panel in that model.

[mitsos]

This would not work for PCBs, but might work for engraving anodized aluminum.  Gemini is correct, I've actually tried doing a PCB on a much larger, maybe more (certainly not less) powerful machine.  At full blast it didn't even leave a mark on the copper.  Too reflective. Same machine would not cut any metal, it's mostly used for cutting MDF, acrylic, that sort of thing.

Igor has posted that he has a laser rig he made from some kind of dental laser or something. 

And Chae engraves for people here (and elsewhere I'd guess). 

Maybe they'll chime in.

anyway, there are lots of plans for CNC routers online, I would think a CNC laser engraver would be easier, assuming you could source the laser, due to the fact there are lower physical strength requirements on the machine. 

[gemini86]

I think it's the wavelength rather than the power that matters for etching copper... (I want to say maybe a green laser-without googling it right now)

[Chae Ham]

There are two major categories of lasers for this sort of thing, CO2 and YAG. They affect materials differently, or rather materials react differently to the different laser types.
There are several subtle differences between the two but none of them are relevant to the original question.

Generally speaking, it's all about power. If that box is truly equipped with a 45W laser tube then you will be able to mark front panels and you will be able to cut FR4 (although it's a nasty nasty material to burn so I would highly discourage it).

Soft metals with high thermal conductivity like copper and aluminum are almost never cut with a laser. It's not the right tool for the job.  Because of the high thermal conductivity it would result in a messy cut.  You would also need more than 400W to do it.

Steel on the other hand, because of the low thermal conductivity, is a great material to laser cut.

The laser they're selling is also extremely cheap (buyer beware). Although at that price maybe it's worth checking out for fun. Just for reference, a professional quality laser with a 45W power tube should be around $15k.

[Marik]

To cut through copper you will need much more powerful YAG* (I am not sure if any CO2 would be powerful enough to be able to leave even a mark on metal). To make PCBs you will need to remove lots of material, so it will be extremely slow and inefficient process, which will leave burning marks on phenolic. Real mess! It is just not right machine for the task--you'd be much better with a CNC router.

*That's beside the point for the price of the YAG you will get a life supply of PCB's made in professional facilities, and still left some dough for a bunch of real good whisky, wine, theater tickets, or whatever you prefer, to enjoy your evenings.

Best, M 

[gemini86]

I've thought about asking if my local engraver would let me try etching some thick black paint off of a copper sheet. But I don't think they know enough about using the machine to be able to cleanly remove all the paint, or if it's even possible.

Then it's just a matter of etching with chemicals, and your "toner transfer" is laser precise.

[Marik]

I've thought about asking if my local engraver would let me try etching some thick black paint off of a copper sheet. But I don't think they know enough about using the machine to be able to cleanly remove all the paint, or if it's even possible.

If you adjust power at the right setting it should remove the paint nice and clean... at least it does a nice job on a powder coated surfaces. Another cool way of leaving marks on metals is using laser with Cermark.

Best, M   

[gemini86]

That could be a great alternative to screen printing!

[Chae Ham]

I should clarify my previous post. You will be able to cut FR4 but not the copper. Most industrial cutting of steel is done with a CO2 laser, but it will require >400W.

[gemini86]

Chae, have you messed with Cermark at all?

[Chae Ham]

We go through about 10kg of it per year. 

[ruffrecords]

Thanks for all the info. Looks like its a non starter for PCBs.

Cheers

Ian

[ChuckD]

Yes and No on the PCBs

I saw online a video somewhere what they do is etch a PCB but they use the CO2 laser to get the etch mask on there!
Basically they spray paint the copper clad with black spray paint. Then laser the "don't keep" areas away and you have a perfect etch mask for a DIY pcb .

Think about it. This is much easier then the laser printer tone transfer deal

Chuck

[ChuckD]

I use the same principle for engraving panels as well.

Powder coat a raw panel with a nice thick even coating
Cover the whole thing with the widest masking tape availible
CO2 laser the engraving ,  use mulitple passes until you hit bare metal and burn away the powdercoat.
Now go outside and spray that sucker with spray paint to backfill the engraving. do a couple of coats. 
Wait for it to dry Peel off the tape

Engraved!
The best part besides the cost (super cheap if you have access to a laser) is that you can do any graphic or font you want and are not limited to the engravers fonts. Also you can draw it up in Adobe illustrator or Corel which is way easier then a FPE cad program.



Chuck

[Chae Ham]

ChuckD,

The idea of using paint as the "photo resist" and using the laser to burn away the null area is brilliant! Most blank pcbs come with a photo resist layer on the board so paint wouldn't even be needed.
I've long stopped etching my own boards, but this idea makes me want to start back up!
The precision you could get from burning off with the laser would really allow for great home etches of pretty complex layouts.
I have to try this very soon.

[riggler]

Hey this is great! My community college has a laser engraver they let the community use. I am going to try this for making my RCA BC3C preamp boards. Thanks!

[gemini86]

I use the same principle for engraving panels as well.

Powder coat a raw panel with a nice thick even coating
Cover the whole thing with the widest masking tape availible
CO2 laser the engraving ,  use mulitple passes until you hit bare metal and burn away the powdercoat.
Now go outside and spray that sucker with spray paint to backfill the engraving. do a couple of coats. 
Wait for it to dry Peel off the tape

Engraved!
The best part besides the cost (super cheap if you have access to a laser) is that you can do any graphic or font you want and are not limited to the engravers fonts. Also you can draw it up in Adobe illustrator or Corel which is way easier then a FPE cad program.



Chuck

That sounds awesome. Do you have any pics of a finished panel you've done?