Expensive resistors - Direct comparison

[Autophase]

Hi Guys,
I recently completed a summing unit using the neumann V475 2c as per Volkers design.
Having been using it for a few weeks I decided to see what would happen if I changed the resistors in the summing network to aomwthing a little more expensive.
I put in Kiwame resistors which come in at 80 pence each, to replace the standard metal film resistors that are very cheap.
The 2 test files below are an identical composition of 4 synths and 2 stereo effects each summed through the unit & back into the box at 24/48. There are no effects on the master and each file was exported at 24/48 so there should be no conversion artefacts.
1 is summed through the kiwame resistors and the other through your bog standard metal film resistors.
I would be intreigued to see if any of you can hear a difference and which you prefer, I have been A/B'ing for a good 30 mins and their are subtle differences that i can hear.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wka3r1b28zwyk6m/HXl-ptbdFJ

[millzners]

I believe metal film tend to have less noise, and that noise can be apparent in nV/sqrtHz noise as well as in phase noise (jitter).  We've done tests and found significant measurable differences in metal film vs. thin film resistors.  My guess is that difference is roughly comparable to that of the change from carbon film to metal film.

The audible differences in your circuit, if they are detectable, may be due to the added noise and phase modulation.  I'd give them a listen but I have cloth ears and a sub-par listening setup.

[abbey road d enfer]

These Kiwame resistors are expensive only because audiophools are ready to pay a premium for glorified cosmetics.
They probably "sound" different, just like two resistors of different size, material, construction or coating sound different. Being carbon-based they have probably a higher R vs. V variation than metal. This is probably why they claim "more natural sound". It is well known that more distortion means more natural. 
 However, considering the extremely low power they are submitted to - in the order of a fraction of mW - I don't doubt it is minimal.
Finally, I must say I'm impressed with their claim of "Extensive neutrality". These guys are creative. What about "unstoppable transparency", or "radical naturalness"?

[Samuel Groner]

What I do hear is that file x starts at lower level than y. The difference is more than the 0.5 dB you'd expect from the 5% resistor tolerance of the "expensive" parts. Also I'm surprised that both files appear to be normalized to 0 dBFS..? If you don't match levels very carefully (which should be easy here--just don't change anything except the resistors) such a listening comparison becomes useless!

Samuel

[emrr]

Yes, if your levels are different by even 0.1 dB you will think you are hearing other differences. 

[millzners]

I'm sorry, I just had to copy and paste this from an audiophile site... 

The carbon version is warm and musical -- this was the case even when paired with a Non inverting gain clone which can sound a lbit on the sterile side itself. The sounds are round -- almost bloomy. Bass is deep and defined, but is visceral -- my wife described it as embracing.

I mean... bloomy?  embracing?  I can never get enough of this stuff.

[pasarski]

X sounds crispier to me, maybe it's distortion or maybe Y is "low passed" by magic resistors? I'm not sure what visceral bass is but I think Y sounds more round, but then again X is bloomier. Both embrace me equally. 

[bruno2000]

You guys crack me up!
Best,
Bruno2000

[s2udio]

X sounds crispier to me, maybe it's distortion or maybe Y is "low passed" by magic resistors? I'm not sure what visceral bass is but I think Y sounds more round, but then again X is bloomier. Both embrace me equally. 

Wow ....some real live Bloomers !

Ohh dear.

[pucho812]

Wonder how it sounds in  a few years when  the resistors drift?

[JohnRoberts]

The OP is wise to question whether expensive resistors are worth the cost.

Uncontrolled listening tests can be unreliable.

I like to joke that our ears are like a VOM with 10 digits of resolution, but only 5 digits of accuracy,,, So we may be able to hear things but without much way to effectively use that information.

JR

[lassoharp]

I'm sorry, I just had to copy and paste this from an audiophile site... 

The carbon version is warm and musical -- this was the case even when paired with a Non inverting gain clone which can sound a lbit on the sterile side itself. The sounds are round -- almost bloomy. Bass is deep and defined, but is visceral -- my wife described it as embracing.

I mean... bloomy?  embracing?  I can never get enough of this stuff.

Oh Yeah, sounds like some cozy listening session mmm?


Rule # 1 - Obtain equal levels for all A/B tests

Rule# 2 - Save the wine until after the  tests are done.

 



For some reason I'm having a tendency to say that y is somehow slightly more round sounding than x, or x thinner sounding than y and possibly less bright/airy.  The level difference  has to be corrected.  I'm just guessing on the fly with the vol control to the monitor speakers, which isn't even a real fix if the amplifiers feeding the summing box are running at higher levels. 

[okgb]

Worse in the age of " Baby Bloomer's " ?