SSL clone: enhanced input & output section

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markus j

Member
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
5
Location
new york city
hey guys

i am in the middle of building my first two SSL clones. I had Bill Whitlock over at Jensen Transformers help me design a new & improved input and output section.. can't report on it yet, but i will get back to y'all..

mark


SSL%20Clone%20Mods%20-%20Jensen%20Transformers.jpg


two%20SSL's.JPG


SSL%20new%20IO%20section.JPG


SSL%20power%20supply.jpg
 
I trust he will not mind that i quote his description of the circuit mods:


three replies to my emails, in order :

-----------------


For the input stages, I'd recommend our JT-11P-1 transformers. The circuit
changes would be minimal. The input coupling capacitors (4 each 22u and
100n) would be eliminated and a single resistor and small capacitor added to
properly load the transformer secondary. I can fax a schematic to show you
how to do this.


For the output stages, I'd recommend our JT-11-EL transformers. One of the
paralleled 100u and 100n capacitor sets would be replaced with a jumper, and
on the other set, the 100u capacitor replaced with a 470u unit. Both 100R
resistors would be replaced with 47R units. The 47K resistors can also be
deleted. Likewise, I can fax a schematic for this.


The input stage modification would have generally the most profound effect.
The reasons for this include much improved noise rejection, especially when
the input is driven by an unbalanced source. Subtle distortions, often
described as a "veiled" or "gritty" sound, as well as RF interference
problems are virtually eliminated by the time-transparent low-pass filtering
provided by the transformer.


The major benefit of the transformer output stage is complete freedom of
interconnection to either balanced or unbalanced inputs. Ground loop
problems, especially prevalent when driving unbalanced inputs, are virtually
eliminated.


I am assuming that the input connector (not shown in the schematic you sent)
is a 3-conductor 1/4" phone jack. If a 2-conductor plug (from an unbalanced
source) is plugged in, the proper connections are made (- input is grounded)
and operation is normal. Of course, the interface is unbalanced and subject
to the ground noise problems shared by all unbalanced interconnections.


If the same 3-conductor jacks are used at the outputs, potentially serious
problems can occur because the 2-conductor plug will short-circuit one of
the op-amp outputs, causing it to current limit. This can not only overheat
the IC, but cause distortion problems in the other (active) output leg.


I hope these are adequate answers to your questions. I'd be happy to
elaborate or answer further questions if you like. And I promise to respond
more quickly, too!


Sincerely,
Bill Whitlock, president
Jensen Transformers, Inc.



------------

Attached please find a schematic of my recommended modification. The DRV134,
like the SSM2142, can drive unbalanced loads without harm. The only
potential problem is instability or distortion if the output cable is not
grounded directly at the output jack (a real transformer allows grounding at
the receive end of the output cable, which largely eliminates ground loop
problems). As shown, you'll need to keep one section of each 5532 operating.

The transformer input stage will have the same gain regardless of whether
the driving source is balanced or unbalanced. Unlike the original output
stage, this one also will not change gain if only one of its outputs is used
to drive and unbalanced line. It imitates a transformer in this regard. Of
course, like a transformer, the other output line must be tied to ground for
this to be true. Do not leave the unused output floating - it will seriously
reduce output on the active output.

----------------


The DRV134 will have the same gain, 2, whether driving balanced or
unbalanced loads (the gain on one pin doubles if the other output pin is
grounded). The old output stage had a gain of 2 for differential (balanced)
loads, but only a gain of 1 for a grounded (unbalanced) load because it
could not sense a grounded pin like the DRV134 does - perhaps the TI guy
didn't know this. Your front-end circuits (both old and new) have a gain of
1. The DBX stage appears to be set for a gain of 1 when control voltage is
zero. So, overall gain should be unity regardless of whether input, output,
or both are balanced or unbalanced.

Input stages are sometimes set for a gain of 0.5 for headroom
considerations. For example, if both input terminals were driven with max
level signals, about 28 volts peak-to-peak each (for bipolar 15-volt power
rails), and of opposite polarity, a unity-gain differential stage would
attempt to output the difference ... some 56 volts peak-to-peak ... and, of
course, go into hard clipping. To prevent this, differential amplifiers are
often operated at a gain of 0.5. Then the differential stage would output 28
volts peak-to-peak. So the input stage would clip at about the same time the
driving source would clip (a good thing for system headroom).


Hope this helps,
Bill

---------------

i am not sure why my images are not coming through, if anyone knows pls contact me and i will correct the original post.

mark
 
Why are you moving to a new power supply? Looks a little like the board from JLM :) Please let us know how your project turns out, that looks really interesting!
 
..edited the links, as our forum software dosen't believe in spaces in weblinks..

And yes, transformer balancing like this is possible, and can be very good sounding - just don't expect it to sound like a SSL..

Jakob E.
 
yes that is a JLM power supply, it offers a much bettter layout and (just enough) room for the proper smoothing cap sizes. i will be using Amveco TE62044 or 62054 toroids.

input transformers because: better CMRR, lower noise, natural RFI shielding (as Bill Whitlock noted).

agreed, these SSL copies might not have the same "80's" artifacts/distortion/noise/character without the old 5532's, but these design decisions are more in line with the requirements for my modern urban styles of music.

best regards to jakob and everyone building the SSL clone.
mark
 
sounds like a cool idea... I wonder what it would sound like.
About $240 for this little upgrade.. quite a bit of change.. But maybe one day I'll give it a shot...
thanks for posting ...
Gil
 
This sounds really interesting. :thumb:
Do you have a "standard" Gssl to compare with?
Please let us know when you do some listening tests.
:thumb:
Jens
 
input transformers because: better CMRR, lower noise, natural RFI shielding (as Bill Whitlock noted).
Uh, sounds good, but this isn't a mic-input... in other words,
I'm just wondering - unless youre cableruns are long and/or in an aggressive environment
(like MJ's Neverland for instance :twisted: ), does it really matter much ? :roll:
 
No, I don't think that the interfacing-benefits is important at all in a studio environment.

But the sound of the transformers can surely be a good thing - if you don't expect it to sound like an SSL, but in some ways better.

Jakob E.
 
I have 3 comps in my desk now. I'm debating doing that for one of them. :?
just that little money thing keeping me from it.. :grin:
I do, however, have some blackgates caps that I want to try.. What do you think about that, Jakob???
 
You have nothing to lose but time in trying the x-former mod. If it does not work out, that Jensen x-former will not be sitting on your DIY parts shelf for long, I promise you that.
 
[quote author="gyraf"]try it - but I don't think it will make much difference. We've discussed this before - try searching..

Jakob E.[/quote]

Is this because they are bypassed with polys ?
 
sorry Jakob,
didn't even think about searching...
I'll give it a shot and post the results..
It would be cool if I could do one with Black gates, one with nichicon, and one with the Jensen mod, but I don't think I have the goodies($)..
This mod sounds very interesting indeed.. Please post sounds clips..
 
i've been busy but finally got one of the ssl's (with the jensens and DRV-134 differential line driver output chips) up and running. so far i did a quick calibration and then ran a drum loop through it. was pretty amazed at how clean it sounded. even at full makeup gain there is just NO noise at all, and no difference between the original signal and the signal through the SSL in bypass (with makeup gain). i don't hear any differences in kick drum beater, or low end extension, or depth & clarity of reverb, for example. i don't hear it 'softening' up the sound or anything either. i wasn't sure what to expect with the jensens.

[i'm using: RME fireface 800 a/d/a, and monitoring on dynaudio BM15a's and grado RS-1 cans]

i will post pix and audio files at some point. first i need to get SSL#2 troubleshot and finished.


a question about calibration:

i've been looking at the calibration posts and am wondering why i don't see any mention of att & rel settings during calibration. they make a huge difference in gain reduction while you are calibrating the unit. which att/rel settings are recommended for the steffan/keith procedures ?

best regards everyone
mark
 
no, the benefits for the output transformer didn't seem worth it to me. however here is a modified line driver schematic from him for a previous line preamp i made.

i had used this as starting point for my own circuit, which did use in & out transformers. there are plenty more of these app notes at www.jensentransformers.com

best,
mark


JT10KBDPC_JT11DMCF_LINE_DRIVER.gif
 
I just found this "older" topic... and while I'm designing a new version of the ssl comp I've go some question concerning the in and output stages...


I think using the drv134 is a good idea. but I've a few questions:

1) why is there still the need for the 5532 after the vca??

2) is it not possible to connect the vca output directly to the drv134 input ??

3) why are there 100r resistors at the output pins of the drv134 ??

4) are the "47k to ground" resistors after the coupling caps still needed??

mat
 
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