Too cheap to work

[JohnRoberts]

For a few decades I have wrestled with black mold inside my house. The high relative humidity and copious mold in local soil makes this too easy to get established. I had a leaking bathroom toilet water fitting that was left un-repaired for years. The bathroom humidity allowed mold to do what mold does. I won't bore you with the details but the long term solution that has been successful for years is to maintain indoor relative humidity at levels low enough to suppress mold survival and spread. Coincidentally when established mold is first deprived of moisture its first reaction is to blow out huge numbers of spores. This involved lots of cleaning indoor surfaces for years.

Running indoor dehumidifiers during winter months generates excess heat that is relatively easy to live with. During summer months extra indoor heat is obviously undesirable. My research suggests that indoor humidity can be as high as 60-70% RH and still suppress mold growth. I have a few cheap indoor temperature/humidity sensors that indicate "too high" humidity for levels >55% RH. I mentally understand that I should disregard the too high humidity warnings but they serve as a subliminal "nudge" for me to dehumidify more than is necessary.

[edit- I was so pleased with these two I ordered a third to replace my last old un. When I set up the third one, I put all three side by side to see how they would agree with each other. It took a few hours for the units to settle in but all three were within 0.5'F of each other, and RH was within 1%. I am OK with that. /edit]

[edit2- These contain clock and calendar functions. I did not consider them at time of purchase but now I find the clocks handy. I am not looking forward to having to reset these 2x a year with daylight savings/ edit]

I checked and modern versions of these same gadgets have raised the "too high" thresholds to 60%RH and 70%RH.... I just ordered a pair of 70%RH threshold devices. Hopefully this will save some energy and help save the planet.

JR

 

[cyrano]

Maybe it would be wise to figure out the exact species of black mold. Stachybotrys chartarum, Aspergillus niger, Claviceps spp or Fusarium spp. These are the four ones listed in my compendium as black mold. All of these produce a mycotoxin.

I kinda doubt it's Aspergillus, since that's more commonly found on fruit or nuts (pistache and peanut). It produces a deadly mycotoxin.

Stachybotrys chartarum is more likely, as it "eats" cellulose. It also produces a mycotoxin, but it's not as dangerous.

I don't know about the other two as it's an entire family. Claviceps purpurea, fi is the one that killed thousands in medieval times. Is it "mother of corn" in English? Or "ergot fungus"? Despite it's name, it's usually black. Fusarium is possible. Ever had toe nail fungus that's black? That would indicate a Fusarium species.

Over here, you can ask one of our universities to check it for you. Also, some water treatment companies do a free analysis, but they'll try to sell you something. And some, if not most fungal treatments are less than scientifically justified.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Maybe it would be wise to figure out the exact species of black mold. Stachybotrys chartarum, Aspergillus niger, Claviceps spp or Fusarium spp. These are the four ones listed in my compendium as black mold. All of these produce a mycotoxin.

I kinda doubt it's Aspergillus, since that's more commonly found on fruit or nuts (pistache and peanut). It produces a deadly mycotoxin.

Stachybotrys chartarum is more likely, as it "eats" cellulose. It also produces a mycotoxin, but it's not as dangerous.

I don't know about the other two as it's an entire family. Claviceps purpurea, fi is the one that killed thousands in medieval times. Is it "mother of corn" in English? Or "ergot fungus"? Despite it's name, it's usually black. Fusarium is possible. Ever had toe nail fungus that's black? That would indicate a Fusarium species.

Over here, you can ask one of our universities to check it for you. Also, some water treatment companies do a free analysis, but they'll try to sell you something. And some, if not most fungal treatments are less than scientifically justified.

Thanx but sorry if I wasn't clear... I do not currently have a mold problem. I did decades ago but by keeping my indoor humidity low (<60%RH) prevents the mold, whatever type it is, from reproducing. I kicked mold's a__ years ago.

My problem today is old humidity/temperature sensors that overstate the threat from humidity.


This sensor is probably 20 years old and suggests that humidity in the 50s is too wet.

The new ones (already on order) suggest that high 50s%RH is in the green comfort zone, so not too wet.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

This is before picture of back wall of my house. Rain dripping down from the roof, splashes up on the wall and supports mold growth. The after picture shows what my pressure washer did to black (?) mold on brick. Since these old pictures were taken, I added gutters to my roof that prevent feeding the mold so much moisture. The mold did not return without the water dripping from the roof.

JR

 

[fallout]

The Govee temp/humidity sensors are great and fairly inexpensive. Work great with a smartphone for alerts and whatnot. I use them in basement to alert me if my dehumidifier hasn’t kicked on for some reason.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I have a remote temp/humidity sensor out in my (small) green house. Now that the outdoor garden is planted, the green house is empty and unheated, but humidity is 79%RH. Actually lower humidity than out in my yard 90%RH.
=====
Speaking of "Too cheap to work", I recently purchased some new fangled Cheap liquid free laundry detergent sheets. I have long been averse to carrying water home from the supermarket. This new type of detergent is in small dry sheets, that you throw in with the clothes. 1 to 4 sheets depending on size and how dirty the clothes are. I have been using these for a few weeks now and they seem to work well. 160 sheets for $10 seems like a good deal. The liquid laundry detergent makers are starting to make their soap more concentrated but still heavy and packaged in big plastic jug.

I like these because I am cheap, and they are small and light weight. I doubt these will be commercially successful because they don't neatly match consumer's preconceived expectations of what laundry detergent looks like.

For now I am declaring these as "cheap and works"....

JR

 

[cyrano]

OK, you've got it covered.

The temp/humidity sensor I have (ALDI, 12€) allows to set the alarm for humidity. Strangely enough, besides the humidity warning, it also has a "flu risk" warning that can't be set. No detail in the manual. I wonder how that works?

 

[JohnRoberts]

I like these because I am cheap, and they are small and light weight. I doubt these will be commercially successful because they don't neatly match consumer's preconceived expectations of what laundry detergent looks like.

I have been thinking about how the established liquid detergent brands might react if the small detergent sheets gain traction in the marketplace. They could make the liquid detergent more concentrated than it is. Instead of a bottle cap full, pour a thimble full into the washer.

I still think this packaging is awkward but I like the low price, and reduced waste.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

OK, you've got it covered.

The temp/humidity sensor I have (ALDI, 12€) allows to set the alarm for humidity. Strangely enough, besides the humidity warning, it also has a "flu risk" warning that can't be set. No detail in the manual. I wonder how that works?

You might not immediately associate moist air with clean air, but a large body of evidence suggests that more humid air—in the range of about 40 to 60 percent humidity—can help cut down on airborne virus transmission.

https://www.consumerreports.org/health/flu/use-a-humidifier-to-prevent-flu-a6503801917/

The rationale is a little odd... Apparently virus droplets in saliva or respiratory particles when moist are heavier and drop out of circulation faster than the same droplets and respiratory particles allowed to dry out. So they are suggesting to add humidity to keep virus bits moist and heavier. BUT don't increase humidity too much or you could promote mold.

Is the "flu risk" warning in your sensor correlated with low humidity?

JR

 

[Youngwhisk]

Hopefully there isn't some form of residue in those detergent sheets that will eventually clog a drain. I switched away from the shiny dishwasher pods because they left a film in the filter.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Hopefully there isn't some form of residue that will eventually clog a dRain. I switched away from the shiny dishwasher pods because they left a film in the filter.

Have I mentioned that I'm cheap..? I bought a package of cheap Amazon Basics dishwasher soap just to try it out, and it works every bit as good as the more expensive premium brands. I don't care what the detergent looks like, its about the dishes getting clean.

JR

 

[cyrano]

Is the "flu risk" warning in your sensor correlated with low humidity?

Sorry, John, I have no idea what it's correlated with. There are no settings for it IIRC.

And I can't have a look as it's still in one of the many boxes that haven't been unpacked yet after we moved. Most of these boxes contain gear I've collected over the years. A few contain my better half's collection of inks, paints and pigments.

I'm still painting the storage rooms. After that, I will be putting in shelves. Once that's done, the boxes will be unpacked.

 

[JohnRoberts]

My two new (cheap) indoor temp/humidity sensors arrived. I set them up side by side to see if they agreed with each other. It took a little while for them to stabilize but settled down to be in close agreement. Next I set up my three decades old temp/humidity sensors side by side with one of my new presumed accurate (?) sensor. The three old sensors deviated 2-4%RH, high in every case. So not only did my old sensors qualify >55% RH as wet, but also read high making my indoor humidity appear even worse than reality. The modern sensors don't consider humidity wet until 70%.

Besides the humidity errors, the temperature measured as much as 2 degrees low in two of the three sensors. There was no correlation between the temp deviation and humidity deviation.

I replaced these because I didn't like how they quantify humidity, but the poor accuracy reinforces my decision. I don't know if these degraded over time, or were this flaky when new. I don't recall ever comparing them side by side.

The new ones have a calibration capability so I expect they were factory calibrated to some standard.
===
I already have multiple other temp/humidity sensors in my house, one in my outdoor thermometer, and one with three remotes. These two new ones agree with my sundry existing sensors. One could argue I have too many sensors. This is all in connection with me reassessing my indoor humidity management. Typical advice is to keep humidity <70%RH, but my old sensors were nudging me to keep it <55%RH.

JR

 

[sr1200]

Ive been fighting humidity the last few weeks. The studio has a lot of instruments (guitars, piano, drums, upright bass, etc.) that dont like extreme fluctuations. I usually try to keep things between 50-55% but the past two weeks, i haven't been able to get out of the 60s with the dehumidifier on 24/7. I only succeeded in getting the temperature down to 62 which is about 10 deg. cooler than I usually set. Gonna be a fun summer. Someone mentioned the govee sensors, they look nice. Im wondering if i can setup some arduino or raspberry pi to take in the alerts that gives off to turn on/off the humidifier/dehumidifier. Might be easier to keep on top of.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Ive been fighting humidity the last few weeks. The studio has a lot of instruments (guitars, piano, drums, upright bass, etc.) that dont like extreme fluctuations. I usually try to keep things between 50-55% but the past two weeks, i haven't been able to get out of the 60s with the dehumidifier on 24/7. I only succeeded in getting the temperature down to 62 which is about 10 deg. cooler than I usually set. Gonna be a fun summer. Someone mentioned the govee sensors, they look nice. Im wondering if i can setup some arduino or raspberry pi to take in the alerts that gives off to turn on/off the humidifier/dehumidifier. Might be easier to keep on top of.

I am pleased with my new cheap sensors, there are lots of options from amazon.

I have seen humidity sensors for sale that can switch power relays mostly for turning on exhaust fans in attics or crawl spaces but I guess they could turn on dehumidifiers too. I live in a relatively high humidity area. 76%/81% RH outside right now. The higher humidity is in my few degrees cooler carport.

I run dehumidifiers indoors 24/7. One overnight in my main room, and the other during daytime hours in my bathroom. I can tweak how much water they pull daily with how aggressively I set the humidity target controls.

In many climates just using air conditioning is enough to keep humidity in check. My dehumidifiers can pull quarts of water from my indoor air in a 24 hour period. The downside is the dehumidifiers also throw off waste heat, undesirable in warm weather months.

JR

 

[cyrano]

55-70 % rh is perfect for humans...

For gear, you might want it lower. But 60% isn't an alarming level IMHO. Too dry will allow static loading. Under 30% is a real threat.

 

[JohnRoberts]

+1... Because of a toxic black mold problem in my house, I have worked to keep humidity low to keep mold in check.

My old sensors were flashing a wet warning at 55% which is generally considered in the middle of the comfort range. I replaced these because they were nudging me to run my dehumidifiers too aggressively. These days I target < 60%RH. In several decades of living here I have never experienced static shock inside this house.

That said I am all too familiar with static from when I lived up north. I recall one old shop vacuum that doubled as a van de graf generator. It was so bad I connected a 4.7M resistor to a light switch ground screw so I could discharge myself harmlessly after vacuuming my office carpet.

JR