+24V and +48V from one supply

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[quote author="cjenrick"]I don't know if it's a good idea to power an amplifier and phantom from the same transformer winding. Any fluctuations in supply voltage ... will show up in your phantom supply, unless you regulate the heck out of it.[/quote]CJ, the plan should include seperate regulation for the Phantom and the +24V. This would reduce the effect of one on the other. Unless you just don't have enough trafo in the first place..which should not be a part of the plan.:razz:
I mean, if you want minus 198 db crosstalk, this is not the way to go!
I know you are joking here but the truth is that unless you use a seperate power trafo for the phantom, you are still AC coupled thru the trafo, by virtue of the fact that a seperate secondary will still couple to the other secondary thru the trafo core.
I have never seen a commercial product that does not use at least a seperate winding to make phantom power.
And, I'm sure you've seen a lot of product that is done similar to everthing else (in many aspects), just because there wasn't any deep thought put into it.

HTH!
Charlie
 
[quote author="jrmintz"]
Why do you not want a voltage doubler?
Tim, it isn't that. Some of my best friends are voltage doublers...[/quote]Oh, I thought you were shunning the doubler for some reason. :oops:

Carry on! :green:
 
Check out this transformer:

WPDLXFMR-1 $30.00 35w Eight 11 volt, 300ma windings and one 9 volt, 2 amp winding.

https://weberspeakerscom.secure.powweb.com/store/magnetic.htm

Eight 11v windings! can be combined a few different ways including as a raw supply for phantom power regulator. Four windings in series give you 44v at 300ma but the phantom load is so light you could probably get a full regulated 48v out of it.

use the other 4 windings to make +/-22v to power opamps...

regards, Jack
 
Charlie,

That's a much better expression of what I was thinking.

I noticed in the Nelson Pass Zen V.4 design he grounds the amp through a rectifier bridge. What is that for? Scroll down to the PSU schematic.
 
[quote author="jrmintz"]That's a much better expression of what I was thinking.[/quote]Thanks, I'm just sorry that I couldn't work it out in my own mind, though I could "see" it somehow.

I noticed ...he grounds the amp through a rectifier bridge. What is that for?
I think its just a safety ground...don't know why it needs to be isolated thru a recto bridge though? Seems a little unsafe in the event of a diode failure. :shock:

Peace!
Charlie
 
[quote author="cjenrick"]The bridge provides a form of isolation between the grounds.[/quote] CJ, I think your assumption is correct, but I doubt SERIOUSLY if it really affects much AC isolation between channels.

HTH!
Charlie
 
pretty weird, i do a search on yahoo and this is the first thing to pop up!

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-11536.html

check out that thermistor also. hmmm, i like to make the pwr supply as stong as possible since 90 percent of all failures are the ps. which means i would immediately rip out the thermistor and bridge.

the chassis is still grounded via the center lug on the pwr chord.
and eventually the two channel grounds hit the same piece of metal, so i guess the bridge has to due more with actual mechanical layout than isolation. the electronic grounds for ech amp are seperated by the bridge, but both hit earth at the same point.

this was probably done by experimental tweaking as pwr amps can reall generate unwanted stuff.
 
> getting +24 volts and +48 volts from the same supply

If you need a big 24V and a light 48V, and can possibly spring for a dual-secondary tranny (or two trannies), this is one sane way to do it:
24V-48V.gif


Using one bridge as a center-tapped +/-35V, and a +24V and a -24V regulator, and ground moved to -24V, can "work", but is a real mind-bender to wire correctly and debug. Also the 48V sucks across both regulators, and as Jakob found a few months back, certain start-up conditions will pull one regulator "in reverse" and the whole thing locks-up.

Generating less than nominal 35V/70V to get regulated 24V and 48V is probably folly because power line variations and resistance losses could put you down at 26V in ripple-dips, and the regulator will go out of regulation, usually with a big buzz. See my post "VAC=VDC" and comments.

Deriving a full high voltage, regulating to 48V for a small load, then tapping that to get a large 24V load, is very wasteful. There is about twice as much heat in the regulators as winds up in the 24V amp. The actual cash cost is small, and we can do "silly" things in DIY without bankrupting the company, but it still seems extravagant for no good reason. (It also needs a non-standard 24V regulator.)

If you just can't get a dual 24V winding: I suppose a 24-0-24 winding with one bridge will work. Ground the "-" pin of the regulator. Big cap (like 2,200uFd 50V) from there to the tranny "0" pin. Smaller (like 470uFd 100V) cap from ground to the bridge's "+" pin. The "0" pin feeds a 24V regulator, the "+" pin feeds a 48V regulator.

This would probably also work with a single 24V winding into the conventional voltage doubler. But in this case the 35V feeding the 24V regulator works half-wave, with high losses, high ripple, DC in the winding, and sometimes radiated field and acoustic buzz trouble.

And there is good reason to keep the Phantom power on a completely separate winding. Unlike other power supplies in good professional equipment, Phantom has power current flowing through a signal shield. And that pin 3 is likely to become shorted to the chassis (mike cables get wired funny), defeating any proper star-ground system. If the Phantom is totally floating, this is not necessarily bad. If it shares any conductor with the main power and signal ground, except at the XLR jacks, you've invented a ground loop. That's probably why commercial designs generally keep the Phantom apart from other power supply windings. In my sketch I've shown the +48V Ref pin returned to XLR pins 3 to reduce the problem, but I don't think that solves it. In fact it might be better, given a dual 24V tranny, to use one winding for the 35V raw 24V reg supply, and run the other into a voltage-doubler to get the Phantom. That way they are isolated and can't ground-loop through the XLR jacks.
 
Hi Andre,

I'm not sure which of Bo's designs you're referring to. I see on his web site a +/-18V and phantom supply from a 24V wall wart. Is there another design I'm not aware of?

Thanks, :thumb:
 
kps24vsch.jpg



Remove C3 and C4.

The ground wire from pin3 of BR2 should be connected to pin3 of BR1 (NOT pin 4 of BR1 as in your picture)

Also put a 1000uf 80V capacitor before C11. At this point, you'd have 70VDC unregulated. Use 80V cap or higher.
 
Crikey :shock:
Thanks for noticing that problem in the rectifiers! should have checked a third time myself before asking the question. Would have saved you the time.

Thanks also for the tip about the additional electrolytic, I should probably use values ALOT higher than 80v no? is 160V overkill.

Sorry I am new to powersupplies.
 
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