New 'ultimate' SSL buss comp clone ;-)

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No, since the horizontal is shrunk in just the same way as the vertical. I can -on an SSL 9000, which has a vectorscope built in- mult a 1kHz tone to two channels, switch in the EQ on the second channel, work the controls so that the phase is about 90° shifted, pan both outputs hard left-and-right at equal level on the stereo buss, and see a more or less perfect circle on the vectorscope.

Adjusting the threshold on the compressor for more or less compression -whether summed or 'higher-of-two' will shrink both Horizontal and Vertical axes equally, since the CV is applied to both L and R signals equally at all times.

Interestingly, I made passing reference in the 'mastering clipping/hump' thread to an SSL 4000 that I just installed 2-3 weeks ago, which has a vectorscope in it. The clipping shows as a perfect 'baseball' diamond, which never pumps or 'throbs' in size... This is with several different compressors patched in, so I know that the DK audio AGC is doing a pretty consistent job! (and definately peak sensing!)

Keith
 
[quote author="SSLtech"]
Maybe then I can 'resurrect' it with a 2151 if I can get hold of one.

Keith[/quote]

I have a few spares if you need one.

Kevin
 
keith

I've just fired up my version of your ultimate gssl.

ultimate%20gssl.jpg
.

I have some problems/questions/observations ? It may be that I'm being a dumb ass & have mede a mistake or two, but just thought I'd run the stuff past you !

1. When using bypass the gain make up control still works slightly. I have paralleled from one switch board to the other on this switch, because the slave was still controlled by the make up control.

2. I get a bit more gain from the master than the slave.

3. I connected the + & - 12v from the master control board to the slave, because they seemed to be needed for the ratio control.
 
What I can see from here is that on the right board you have mounted one pwr regulator reversed while you didn´t reverse it on the left board.
But I have no clue if it has something to do with the mistakes you´ve been talking about :oops:
 
Did you do these bits?


Link point 'D' on both boards.
Link point 'E' on both boards.
Link point 'F' on both boards.
Remove the 3M3 resistor to ground on the slave
Include the TL072 in the slave build, do not omit it as I previously tried...

Keith
 
[quote author="jensenmann"]What I can see from here is that on the right board you have mounted one pwr regulator reversed while you didn´t reverse it on the left board.
But I have no clue if it has something to do with the mistakes you´ve been talking about :oops:[/quote]

It is the right way round, it's just a different brand & the the light reflects on it differently. The very 1st thing I do is check the Power Rails !!
 
[quote author="SSLtech"]Did you do these bits?Link point 'D' on both boards.
Link point 'E' on both boards.
Link point 'F' on both boards.
Remove the 3M3 resistor to ground on the slave
Include the TL072 in the slave build, do not omit it as I previously tried...

Keith[/quote]

Sure did !!
 
Okay, I have to work from memory and schematics, because the unit has been at a studio across town for 2½ months now... :shock:

So far there have been three death metal projects done through it, and two complete major label album mixes... I can't get it back!

Keith
 
[brick-top]
Goody gumdrops!
[/brick-top]

How much difference we talking 'bout, by the way?

And is it constant at all makeup gain settings, or does it converge or diverge?

Keith
 
Hmmmm.... That tells me a little, but not enough.

How big were both of the waveforms peak-to-peak? I need comparisons... the difference between 1 and 2 is more than the difference between 5 and 6 if you catch my drift...

:wink:

Keef
 
Right I found it.

In addition to the connections that Keith outlines above, you still need to make the following connections from the slave motherboard to the slave switch board.

V+
V-
A
C

These are relatively obvious when you study the diagram, I initially worked out the power connections, but A & C took a bit more time :oops: ! Without them the ratio components aren't connected to the slave board.

All that remains to be done now is to take it to work & use the distortion analyser to trim the VCA's.

Thanks for this idea Keith you're a top geezer !!
 
Nice one!
Glad that you found it since I'm about to give it a try as well.
The info in this thread from both Keith and you (Rob) should makes this project a breeze.
Does this dual layout recuire a special distortion trim procedure?
 
[quote author="radiance"]Does this dual layout recuire a special distortion trim procedure?[/quote]


One of the reasons for building this exact incarnation of the compressor is to lower the noise/distortion. After all to change the side chain from Gyraf to Broadcast mode you don't need the special VCA`s or to balance the signal through 2 VCA's. To get the lowest noise floor possible does require trimming the VCA's. To do that you need a distortion analyser/meter & it is not possible with just a scope. Whether the difference will be audible to my old cloth ears is another matter !!
 
[quote author="Rob Flinn"][quote author="radiance"]Does this dual layout recuire a special distortion trim procedure?[/quote]


One of the reasons for building this exact incarnation of the compressor is to lower the noise/distortion. After all to change the side chain from Gyraf to Broadcast mode you don't need the special VCA`s or to balance the signal through 2 VCA's. To get the lowest noise floor possible does require trimming the VCA's. To do that you need a distortion analyser/meter & it is not possible with just a scope. Whether the difference will be audible to my old cloth ears is another matter !![/quote]

Ah, I see.....
For me that means if I want to build this project, I've to get myself a distortion meter.
I just bought a scope and thought I had it made .....
 
[quote author="radiance"]Ah, I see.....
For me that means if I want to build this project, I've to get myself a distortion meter.
I just bought a scope and thought I had it made .....[/quote]

Yes, I originally thought that I would be able to trim a GSSL with a scope. The trouble is when you tweak the presets on the GSSL looking at a scope the waveform doesn't change to look at because a scope doesn't have the sensitivity/resolution. You don't need a distortion meter to get this project working very nicely. Most people just centre the trimmers, since it is difficult to notice an audible difference when you move the preset from one extreme to the other ! I certainly couldn't tell a difference !!! But then I don't have golden lobes !
I have access to a distortion meter at a place I work at part time, so I make use of it.
 
Coolio! -I may have forgotten to mention point 'A', but I think I did mention 'C' in my first list of points to link; I think I may have described it as something like "detector output after the diode" or something. I don't think that I did link the ±12Volts between the two boards, but I did have them linked directly to the slave's board, which should be the same thing.

-I reckon you don't need those ±12V links, in fact having them means that if either regulator has a slightly differenct notion of what is precisely 12 volts, there could be a noise issue... try removing them (assuming that you have the slave ratio board fed it's ±12V from the main slave board, of course!) and seeing if it shill works... it should, and since you won't have the two regulator outputs connected directly to each other, there should be no chance of a "fight"...

Rob, one of us should probably do a summary of all the modifications, to save the next person from having to 'trawl and compile'...

Mine has been out on loan for the last 12 weeks, at a local SSL studio where they do a LOT of rock music. I can't get it back because they're in the middle of a 3rd album mix, and it's been used on EVERY SINGLE tune in those 3 albums. -The chief engineer gave me a pack of mic stands brand-new-in-the-box as a thankyou present the other day, just because I mentioned that I needed some mic stands, and they'd been trying to think of some way of thanking me... if that tells you anyghing!

Radiance, there's one way to trim distortion with a scope and a notch filter (or a few narrow-bandwidth maximum-cut EQ bands)... it's tricky, but it CAN work...

Switch the scope to X/Y, connect a pure 1kHz input tone to the input signal to the scope horizontal input and the input of the compressor.

Take the output of the compressor and feed it through the notch filter, or "gang-up" at least 4 bands of EQ all set to match the input frequency, maximum-cut, narrowest bandwidth.

listen to the output signal, and also connect it to the scope's vertical deflection. Wind the gain up MASSIVELY, so that it is very sensitive indeed.

Tweak and tune the bands' center frequencies so that the signal you hear and the "diagonal' deflection that you see on the scope is minimized.

Now, if you start to see 'waves' on what should (in a zero-noise, zero-distortion case) be a perfectly flat horizontal line, you're looking at harmonic multiples of the input frequency. 2 waves is second harmonic. 3 waves is 3rd harmonic, and so on. Noise will be a blurry fuzz.

Tune the symmetry/distortion trim deliberately far from center. You should see some waves and hear a 'sharp' sounding note relating to the tone start to pull through the noise and background tone. Back off the adjustment you made and it shoudl start to fade back out, and at some point it will be replaced by another -usually slightly different sounding- sharp tone.

Somewhere in the middle of this, you should find that there is a sort of null point, perhaps where neither 'sharpness' is perfectly vanished, but perhaps where they are at an agreeable minimum. -Congratulations... that's your lowest distortion point!

A few notes: You'll need an oscillator which doesn't drift up & down in frequency, or you'll never get it nulled out by the filters/EQs long enough to adjust. Likewise you'll need an EQ (or EQs) with similar center-frequency stability.

If your oscillator has 1%THD or something (many do) then you'll hear this distortion LONG before you hear the compressor's distortion, so eliminate it by doing the OPPOSITE EQ "trick", by filtering off everything above and below 1kHz, and perhaps boosting 1kHz on a very narrow 'Q' while you adjust the level of the oscillator down to avoiod overload.

Sure, it's convoluted, but it's resourceful and you CAN do it. Basically it's how an analog distortion analyser works inside the box, and you'll learn a lot about how distortion "sounds" and start to think about the composition of that distortion, and what it sounds like.

Top work Rob, -Now, Radiance: -prove me right... -Build one and trim it up using the "Blue Peter" method I described!

:wink: :thumb:

Keith
 

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