ej_whyte
Well-known member
I've already talked a bit about this in another thread, but i thought i would make a new one as the title of the old one was unrelated. The original thread is here: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=44241.0.
I recently made my 1st PCB, and it all works fine in terms audio passing, no noise or any unwanted nastiness, however the levels I've measured on the scope don't match what I expected from the theory, and I can't figure out why. Speedskater has already given me some guidance on possible grounding issues but this doesn't explain the mismatched levels (I don't think?).
The circuit is basically a 4 channel summing bus, shunted with a 680Ω resistor to bring the level and impedance down, before running in to a Cinemag 1:5 with a 150KΩ load resistor. This circuit is repeated 4 times on the PCB, exactly the same except for the addition of a molex header for running to a bypass switch.
With a 50Ω source, from the schematic I got that there would be 12.04dB loss from summing 4 channels, and then a further ~18.5dB loss due to the 680Ω shunt, and then 13.97dB gain from the transformer (1:5) :
25Ω source + 10kΩ summing (each leg) x4 in parralel = 2506.25Ω
2506.25Ω x 2 = 5012.5Ω (2 legs)
Potential divider loss from 680Ω shunt = 20log(680/5012.5+680) = -18.45dB
So the total loss should be -12.04 + -18.45 = -30.49dB
Add in the transformer gain and the overall level should be -30.49 + 13.97 = -16.52dB
Yep?
However, here are the scope readings I got, obviously not extremely accurate as its an analog scope and human reading error. The top line is voltage, all taken differentially until it is unbalanced at the transformer. The next line is loss from the previous stage, and the bottom line is total loss from input. w/o 680Ω is where I lifted the shunt resistor so I could measure just the summing loss.
Input w/o 680R Post 680R Output
1.6v 0.55v 0.16v 0.85v
Stage -9.275dB -10.724dB 14.505dB
Overall -9.275dB -20dB -5.494dB
So where the reading is -9.275dB it should be -12.04 from summing loss. And where it is -10.724dB it should be -18.45 from the 680Ω shunt. The transformer seems ok, only 0.5dB out from theory.
I did some calcs to try and identify the problem, and found that the summing loss from 3 inputs is -9.54dB, close to my reading so i thought maybe an input isn't connected properly, but nope, they all check out ok. Further to this, if there was only 3 inputs connected, then the loss from the 680Ω shunt would have increased, but the readings actually show it as decreasing.
Thats about as far as I got, any help appreciated.
Thanks
I recently made my 1st PCB, and it all works fine in terms audio passing, no noise or any unwanted nastiness, however the levels I've measured on the scope don't match what I expected from the theory, and I can't figure out why. Speedskater has already given me some guidance on possible grounding issues but this doesn't explain the mismatched levels (I don't think?).
The circuit is basically a 4 channel summing bus, shunted with a 680Ω resistor to bring the level and impedance down, before running in to a Cinemag 1:5 with a 150KΩ load resistor. This circuit is repeated 4 times on the PCB, exactly the same except for the addition of a molex header for running to a bypass switch.
With a 50Ω source, from the schematic I got that there would be 12.04dB loss from summing 4 channels, and then a further ~18.5dB loss due to the 680Ω shunt, and then 13.97dB gain from the transformer (1:5) :
25Ω source + 10kΩ summing (each leg) x4 in parralel = 2506.25Ω
2506.25Ω x 2 = 5012.5Ω (2 legs)
Potential divider loss from 680Ω shunt = 20log(680/5012.5+680) = -18.45dB
So the total loss should be -12.04 + -18.45 = -30.49dB
Add in the transformer gain and the overall level should be -30.49 + 13.97 = -16.52dB
Yep?
However, here are the scope readings I got, obviously not extremely accurate as its an analog scope and human reading error. The top line is voltage, all taken differentially until it is unbalanced at the transformer. The next line is loss from the previous stage, and the bottom line is total loss from input. w/o 680Ω is where I lifted the shunt resistor so I could measure just the summing loss.
Input w/o 680R Post 680R Output
1.6v 0.55v 0.16v 0.85v
Stage -9.275dB -10.724dB 14.505dB
Overall -9.275dB -20dB -5.494dB
So where the reading is -9.275dB it should be -12.04 from summing loss. And where it is -10.724dB it should be -18.45 from the 680Ω shunt. The transformer seems ok, only 0.5dB out from theory.
I did some calcs to try and identify the problem, and found that the summing loss from 3 inputs is -9.54dB, close to my reading so i thought maybe an input isn't connected properly, but nope, they all check out ok. Further to this, if there was only 3 inputs connected, then the loss from the 680Ω shunt would have increased, but the readings actually show it as decreasing.
Thats about as far as I got, any help appreciated.
Thanks