SSl Clone with a Valve Stage?

Hello im researching for a university project, the characteristics of a great mix bus compressor, taking into consideration, circuit type, aesthetics and and funtionality.
I was wondering thinking of hybrid circuit types after constructing a questionnaire and getting results that suggested a hybrid circuit type such as VCA-Valve would be desirable.
as a newbie to the electronics construction of compressors i wondered if this was even possible.
For example would it be possible to incorporate a valve stage into the SB4000 ssl clone? 

Any suggestions or pointers would be very much appreciated as the more research i can obtain the better!!!
Thanks alot

Shea D Stedford

www.sheadstedford.com

Anyone?

Forgive me, but it seems to me like a bit of a silly question...

The Blackmer cell VCA is solid-state only. The SSL relies on the Blackmer cell. Other gain reduction methods don't -cannot- work in the same predictable and lin-to-log manner, which is utterly central to the SSL design.

It's a bit like saying "I love steam engines. -I'd like to DIY a Porsche, but using steam engine parts." -You basically can't use one to do the other.

...and if you just want to add a no-other-function valve stage simply "for the feel of it" why not just build it standalone, so you can use it with whatever other device you fancy?

Keith

I remember thinking once as a Child...

"I think High voltage is cool" You see, my Dad had a step-up Neon sign transformer. We used to love watching the "Frankenstein's Lab" that plasma arc would do...

My thoughts would race to all the destruction and shockings to be had. "Can we burn this? that? him? her? them? the rat?

But, my Dad would explain there was really no "Power available", explaining the whole "I X V" thing... "Not enough Current, Son."

"But Dad, we could just hook it into a car battery! Duh, Dad... you should have known THEY have tons of those amps things"

I still remember the "Kind words" he had for his budding tech.

Hahaaa i thought as much, just wondered if such hybrid ideas were possible for instance running one vca compressor into a tube compressor all in one box or vice versa, like running a signal into an la-2 then into an ssl bus comp, but all in one box???
Im just getting too excited at the possibility!
Thanks anyway mate!!

> VCA-Valve ....i wondered if this was even possible.

No. If a signal has been through any transistor, and you try to put it to a tube, the signal will jump out of the wire and go out on strike.

When transistors replaced tubes, we had to be sure ALL tubes were out of ALL systems, transmitters and receivers in homes and cars, before any signal got through.

> a questionnaire and getting results that suggested a hybrid circuit type such as VCA-Valve would be desirable.

OTOH, if you have proven PAYing customers who want a Steam Porsche, you can do it. (I think it would be almost home-DIY to convert the old Datsun mini-pickup truck engine to turn with steam, and toss a domestic oil-burning boiler in the pickup bed.)

This specific case is no trickier than building two tricky limiters and shoving them together (then debugging the drips underneath). Much easier than wet slide-valves on an air-cooled midget car. See Attached.

It really would make more sense, and be less aesthetically offensive/strange, to bolt a WE300B to the top of an SSL and call it "hybrid". Proven PAYing customers often can't know the difference.

{{EDIT - Actually, this plan won't work as shown; when you know enuff to spot the big problem then a solution may be obvious.}}

[quote author=PRR]
If a signal has been through any transistor, and you try to put it to a tube, the signal will jump out of the wire and go out on strike. [/quote]

stuck a valve in there and put a cold warm knob like the behringer then you can put an LED behind it to make the tube light up ;D

I'm curious about the questionnaire: the wording, the demographic.  Might have some neat insights.  Might not.  "Hybrid" can mean a lot of things, even when correctly used.
I suppose a veritable-mu compressor with a solid state side-chain would be "parallel hybrid"?  PRR's photoshop would be "series-hybrid".  ;D

I was seconds away from pasting some TubeCAD balanced-unbalanced and-back-again to an SSL VCA.  That would beat out puncho812-- with a stereo unit you'd get eight tubes to put in a window.

(I thought this was a fun read: http://www.cyclonepower.com/technical_information.html  Combustion chamber, water tank, steam generator, expander AND condenser in a 350 ib package.  Dry weight, of course)

It really would make more sense, and be less aesthetically offensive/strange, to bolt a WE300B to the top of an SSL and call it "hybrid". Proven PAYing customers often can't know the difference.

Click to expand...

perfect match for that app:


http://cgi.ebay.com/2-300B-Tube-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-Matched-1968-Glass-Holed-/230560582985?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35ae7b4d49#ht_1343wt_932

Looks like i touched a nerve, i didnt mean to offend anyone here it was simply a question as i did say i was a newbie to compressor electronics, it was just an idea.
Thank you for your replies though.
I dont underdstand why my notifications have been turned off?  ???
I am posting in the right forum arent i?

sheadstedford said:

Looks like i touched a nerve, i didnt mean to offend anyone ...

Click to expand...

You haven't! It's just standard, well meaning banter around here - part of this forum's culture/character.

Keep asking questions - it's how we all learn.

pucho812 said:

stuck a valve in there and put a cold warm knob like the behringer then you can put an LED behind it to make the tube light up ;D

Click to expand...

Haha, yes, that's correct.
The behringer valve stage is not even part of the compressor, it's just a crush 'n blend. The dry signal is a valve based line amp. Well, actually, it just has a valve for coloration. (cold/warm is actually wet/dry.) It's funny to see that people are easily fooled.

Here's a compressor which features THAT vca, vactrol opto and Art style 'tube voicing' - just as you asked about.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may05/articles/arttcs.htm

I have one - it sounds *really good*, I have to say. Superbly quiet too.

It was cheaper than the THAT based gssls I have built and at least as good imho.

VCA is very THAT sounding, opto is about what you'd expect and the tube adds a little color.
It also has a simple gate and a DI which are very usable for guitar.

Awsome man! Thanks very much for that!  Research is going well so far

helterbelter said:

pucho812 said:

stuck a valve in there and put a cold warm knob like the behringer then you can put an LED behind it to make the tube light up ;D

Click to expand...

Haha, yes, that's correct.
The behringer valve stage is not even part of the compressor, it's just a crush 'n blend. The dry signal is a valve based line amp. Well, actually, it just has a valve for coloration. (cold/warm is actually wet/dry.) It's funny to see that people are easily fooled.

Click to expand...

Haha this the kind of thing i wan t toadd to the clone, a dry/wet tube colouration stage but im oblivious to how to do so, ive checkrd out some tube lina amp kits recently. Is this the right thing to do and stick it before entering the compressor circuitry?
Please dont shout at me if this is again a dumb ass question

Hi,



  dont worry, we all get hazed from time to time! Newbs just more often. . . . . .


      ;D ;D ;D


  you only learn by asking questions. Time will tell you WHAT questions to ask to learn the most from the Learned Brethren here-assembled, and how to ask them for maximum effect.



      Kindest regards,


          ANdyP

a dry/wet tube colouration stage but im oblivious to how to do so

Click to expand...

Do you know TLAudio? The whole range they offer is based around that kind of hybrid circuits...

Maybe it's time to go to the 'lab' meta-meta and take a closer look at the last subject at bottom of the page Sheadstedford. (Gdiy account).
Good reading...

Thanks for all your help guys! Im really learning a lot! Maybe to much in a short space of time.
I was thinkin about applying a tube amp after the compressor circuit on a wet/dry but some how not alter output gain if that makes sense. I know im tryin to run before i can walk but i cant help it

IMHO, if you are after something for stereo bus/mastering, you definitely need a tube tester, and some knowledge;
how to match tubes in circuit... and some large stock of tubes....
you make a stereo unit, everything matched, and L channel sounds slightly different than R  
then you change tubes, match again etc etc etc....
for dual mono, or MS go for it... you dont need to match anything...


EDIT: if you wanna enter to the tube world, just build a SRPP, works great, and extremely easy..
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=34833.0