Console input - match resistors?

[tv]

Haha, oldies-goldies.

But you retained the 2072s as the audio amplifiers?

 

[living sounds]

Haha, oldies-goldies.

But you retained the 2072s as the audio amplifiers?

No, back to TL072, too. I've found that what is technically better and even audibly more transparent does not automatically result in the aesthetically best outcome and easiest process. In other words, I can get a better sounding mix faster with the op amps that measure worse. I found something similar to be true recently with old synths and drum machines, so I thought I'd try one more time...

 

[living sounds]

Just to follow up on this, since some folks might find it usefull:

I still wasn't happy with the sound I got from the console, so I tried out a lot more things. Turns out the original transistors sound better (the new ones have kind of a hyped sound that adds up, oscillation maybe, but I didn't have the test equipment to find out, it doesn't show in terms of THD or frequency response as far as I can measure), so I put them back in. I had put 100nf COG ceramic caps to ground from the +/- rails everywhere, read up Douglas Self's recommendation of just putting one between the rails (he specifically recommends this for the 5532, but also other op amps), tried it out on a channel - big difference, much clearer sound. This worked great everywhere. Then listened to a lot more op amps, did more mixes etc. On the input a NE5532 works nicely. On the servo I ended up with an LT1213, a LME49720 (and for that matter the supposedly identical LM4562 I guess) worked almost as well. These precises op amps really make a difference with the servo. A high quality cap is advised (I use a 250nf russian military polystyrene). For the EQ lot's of mixes and subjective tests revealed the OPA2132 (or for a little less definition and more of a 'sound' OPA2134) to be prefereable, sounded the most musical by far. On the channel output the stock TL071 was fine. On the master bus I ended up with all NE5532, same for the auxes and busses (TL071 for the single op amp on the busses again).

The hum is still higher than I would like it to be (maybe have a look at the PSU again), other than that the console sounds great now.

 

[tv]

Your opamp observations match my personal "opamp" preferences, also with opa2132 (but I don't have much experience with LT chips..).

I'm still unsure what made the TLE2072 perform badly in your inputs ...
Perhaps there was some oscillation going on?

If you have a spare channel perhaps you can try the cheapo BC327-40 transistors in there.

 

[living sounds]

Your opamp observations match my personal "opamp" preferences, also with opa2132 (but I don't have much experience with LT chips..).

I'm still unsure what made the TLE2072 perform badly in your inputs ...
Perhaps there was some oscillation going on?

If you have a spare channel perhaps you can try the cheapo BC327-40 transistors in there.

I tried the TLE2072 in a lot of places, and they always had a sound. I mistook this for transparency (it measures well, after all), but it didn't translate well in the mixing process.

The LT chip fits the specifications for the servo. Strangely, it also works better with just a single 100nf ceramic between the rails, even though the datasheet suggests 10nf to ground (I tried that with solid tantalum caps that generally work very well for power rail filtering, but the rail-to-rail ceramic was better).

BTW, I tried so many op amps (often complete sets for mixing tests) in that console... It's very hard to come to the right conclusion, and they all sound very different especially in the EQ. What sounds good listening to a channel may not work at all for a whole mix etc. And the same labelled chip by different manufacturers and from different production runs (especially the 5532) can be vastly different as well.

 

[tv]

you didn't like tle's on vox/guit/synths? i.e. I mean channels that need to "stick out" a little?

btw I'm curious if you also tested the opa2132s directly in input stage (with your original transistors) and how they fared there in your opinion.

 

[living sounds]

you didn't like tle's on vox/guit/synths? i.e. I mean channels that need to "stick out" a little?

btw I'm curious if you also tested the opa2132s directly in input stage (with your original transistors) and how they fared there in your opinion.

Not really. They (TLE2072) exhibit a bloated high end and low end, and lack midrange definition. The TL072 sounds better to my ears. Same thing with the single version.

The OPA2132 have a laid-back sound, the opposite of exitement, and in the input stage this results in blander sounding mixes. The 5532 in that position keeps the "crack" of the attack, the fast transient, intact, or at the least modifies it in a beneficial way. But the crucial op amp in the signal path (not the EQs) is really the one controlling the servo, there's no crisp high end and bass definition with the older ones.

 

[tv]

are you tracking also or you have a "mixing-only" console?

 

[living sounds]

99% mixing/production, I use external pres for recording. But I'll do a shootout some time, it might sound cleaner now than the external pres. I realize the changes lowered the maximum gain possible, but for LDC's recording vocals at least it should suffice.

are you tracking also or you have a "mixing-only" console?

 

[tv]

It occured to me you must be mainly focusing on mixing from your tonal preferences.

 

[living sounds]

In what way? To me the application didn't matter much, for instance, I had put the TLE op amps in synth outputs and DACs and ADCs and they made the same trouble everywhere.

BTW, It would be nice to know objectively what these differences actually are, and why they matter...

It occured to me you must be mainly focusing on mixing from your tonal preferences.