Inductors for passive EQs...

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Good news, I talked my employer into naming my area "Magnetics"
I then moved the companies torroid winder, my new winder, and a garage sale winder into my area. I also moved all the wire into my area.
 
:green: :green: A scared CEO is a good CEO..... ah reckon ....

Mmmh .. How come no one wants to hire me anymore?
 
CEO?
I told the dusty old fart to go shave his balls.
610, what?

Well, I guess by thr time UA sues, I will be drivin a cart, so wtf...

get yo rite clickin, mo fo in fingas red eye.


:grin:

do you guys usually open up a new window, or new tab?

I know. I got the "quit booze-primadona" thing going on.
but i have to act it out, otherwise my nut sack isa gonna pop.
:green:

Doc says 4 more months to de frag.
:thumb:
 
Wow, it's been a while... Sorry to have left you all hanging there, folks! I finished the EQ (or two of them, actually - one stereo unit) just as I was switching jobs and moving, so I never got to finish documenting the construction process. :sad:

It sounds incredible, though! It now belongs to a friend who has more use for it than I.

Peace,
Al.
 
Hello,

I know this is an old thread so if there is a better place please advise. I am working on my first big DIY project. Its a G-Pultec and I had gotten the Toko inductors for it but then I thought "what fun would that be!?" So I decided it would be more of a learning experience to make my own inductors. I plan on making a standard G-Pultec 22mH, 69mH, 169mH. I bought this core, this bobbin and this wire...

http://www.surplussales.com/Inductors/Ind-Bobbins.html bobbin was the (PC Pot Core PC Mount - 4 x 4 Pins) + (Clip with PC Stake) at the bottom
http://www.surplussales.com/Inductors/FerPotC/FerPotC-7.html core was the (Epcos RM8 Core)
http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-cable/magnet-wire.html wire width was 28awg

Now I have read how to wind the wire with a DIY winder (very cool), how to tap it by making a loop and rubbing off the enamel + soldering, and how to figure out the mH with a formula and a meter but I really haven't found too much out about the mechanics of making the physical inductor.

1. How do you start winding? Where do you put the first wire? Pin 1?
2. Which is the coil ground? Is it the last piece of wire you got left? Is it the fist piece?
3. Which is the core ground?
4. How do you wire it in parallel? Do you go (22mH/69mH) + (ground) to get 47mH?
5. How do you work it into the G-Pultec PCB?

I am really interested in learning. I want to figure this stuff out and Google/search feature in this group has not helped me. I have been searching for a few days now.

BTW I thought this link helped me a lot to figure a few things out about inductors...
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/inductor/inductor.html
I know its very beginners for a lot of you but maybe it could help a noob like me in the future.

Thanks,

Alain
 
Seen that one. Does not cover my questions. Thank you though. It seems like this stuff is a bit of a dark art to me.
 
ding said:
Thank you though. It seems like this stuff is a bit of a dark art to me.

I find it challenging too to be honest.  I've designed a passive EQ based entirely around inductors and ideally I'd like to wind my own but I've been put off, I just need to dig in and do the work.

Cheers,
Ruairi

 
ding said:
1. How do you start winding? Where do you put the first wire? Pin 1?

one approach is to pick a commercial inductor and match it.  There are two sources of well documented tapped commercial inductors Carnhill and Chrion on the white market, there may be others.  They both offer pinouts on their site.  Carnhill works in 2 different sizes of pot cores and in RM7, Chrion work in RM8 cores.  The white market thread Chrion runs has a pinout for his inductors.  The design guide PDF on carnhill site has their pinouts.

Sowter makes some, and I think generally uses wire leads rather than pins, but I think they document the colors on the site.

Anyway, I have done RM7, RM8 and Pot core tapped inductors and I usually try to find the closest Carnhill inductor, make a little 1" x 1" perfboard holder and jumper or wire the core to the appropriate pins (I use pins from DSub 25 pin male pins which work well and are crimpable on top to hold the wire while I solder.  It probably doesn't matter, but I like the idea that I can use the inductor in a PCB that calls for a carnhill if I don't use it in the project I am doing.

2. Which is the coil ground? Is it the last piece of wire you got left? Is it the fist piece?

As far as I can tell the coil ground is generally a separate pin.  In the case of the RM7 RM8 etc it is usually one or both of the clips.  Since the ferrite core is not electrically conductive you can't really ground it but I have seen pics in carnhill that they solder a wire from one clip to a copper foil strip wound around the coil (but I don't think you want to allow that foil to make a loop (I keep it open with tape) for shielding.  i don't know what effect this has.  You could also wind a single layer around the coil with one open end and ground that (I have seen that done) think of it as a long spiral shield, open on one end.  I think these are electrostatic shields.

3. Which is the core ground?

You pick, but carnhill calls it out and provides photo's of what I am talking about in their PDF design guide.

4. How do you wire it in parallel? Do you go (22mH/69mH) + (ground) to get 47mH?

inductors in series add (opposite of capacitors) so I think a 22mH in series with a 69mH is a 91mH.  But on a tapped inductor it doesn't seem to work that way because the inductance is proportional to the square of the number of turns so (as your link reference mentions) you can have a 69mH tap and a 91mH tap, but don't expect them to be 22mH apart.  As luck (or design) would have it, the pultec (and g-pultec) design just calls for different inductances from the "START" of the coil, so the "between" amounts don't matter (they will be correct i you use separate inductors but they won't if you use a tapped coil but both will do the exact same job (if the inductance matches) regardless.  I believe you are using "ground" in this case incorrectly.  A tapped coil has a "Start" then it has tap 1, tap 2, tape 3 etc.  You can ground anything you want, but the ground marked on the Carnhill design guide is just a link to the frame or shield of the inductor.  Their tapped inductors are measured from a start pin to various other pins.

5. How do you work it into the G-Pultec PCB?

I have built a pultec passive EQ section (using my own transistor buffers) but I have not built one using the G-Pultec PCB.  but I believe the PCB calls for separate inductors.  in this case using leads and jumpers from your DIY tapped inductor you could connect to the PCB and it could work just fine (a bunch of inductors in series looks like a tapped inductor and is just what the G-Pultec and Pultec EQP-1 schematics call for.


Thanks,


Alain
 
Thanks for that. It was very helpful. BTW I did mean (22mH/69mH) + (start) = 47mH.
So if you want to add you wire in series 22mH pin to 69mH pin to contact point but to subtract you would connect in parallel 22mH pin to contact point + 69mH pin to contact point? Is that right?
 
Like resistors with inductors you add inductance value when connecting them in series.

I don't think you can subtract in parallel... You better google it.  I think it is 1/22 + 1/69 = 1 / (combined parallel inductance)  just like resistors, but I am not sure I am remembering right.
 
ding said:
4. How do you wire it in parallel? Do you go (22mH/69mH) + (ground) to get 47mH?
5. How do you work it into the G-Pultec PCB?

Just for future reference this is how to wire a gPultec with a tapped inductor.

I could not get enough inductance for a gPultec out of those Epcos RM8 cores with 28 AWG wire. There just wasn't enough winding space and the Al was only 400. I'm going to try with the pot core from amidon. Maybe this one http://www.amidoncorp.com/pc2213-77/ If anyone has had any luck with the RM8 cores let me know I would be willing to re-try.
 

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Epcos RM8 cores comes in a variety of Al-values.

Try e.g. T38 low-distortion material (Epcos B65811J0000Y038) at Al=12500 - although it might saturate relatively easy.

Jakob E.
 
gyraf said:
Epcos RM8 cores comes in a variety of Al-values.

Try e.g. T38 low-distortion material (Epcos B65811J0000Y038) at Al=12500 - although it might saturate relatively easy.

Jakob E.

Hi Jakob,

Is there a relationship between the AL value of the core and the potential for saturation?

Cheers,
Ruairi
 
ruairioflaherty said:
gyraf said:
Epcos RM8 cores comes in a variety of Al-values.

Try e.g. T38 low-distortion material (Epcos B65811J0000Y038) at Al=12500 - although it might saturate relatively easy.

Jakob E.

Hi Jakob,

Is there a relationship between the AL value of the core and the potential for saturation?

Cheers,
Ruairi

Ruairi, think about Tx where you can use alloys (bigger Al value than regular steel lamination) for mic input trannies (superperm 49 or 80 for example) in order to achieve a bigger inductance (bass response) with the same amount of turns.
What you gained in term of bass response you will lose it in term of signal level handled.....that's why you don't see too often alloys output Tx (depending on the output signal the unit has to handle , it can be used).
To summarize : the bigger the Al value , the weaker the signal the core can handle without saturation.
There is a topic where someone measured saturation depending on which core the inductances were made of...i'm gonna try to find the link for you.... N30 400 or N30 630 are generally safe to use ....if you can't achieve the amount of henrys needed (say couple of H for bass frequencies) , maybe you need a bigger core or a smaller wire (which leads to  more resistance) instead of more Al
 
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