SSL 9K Mic Pre Thread 2009

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For what it is worth, I purchased 10 of the MAT-02's from the Asian source as well. They came quickly and look authentic to me compared to the pair I bought direct from Analog Devices.

These 10 appear to have actually shipped to me in the original Analog Devices box they were shipped to the Asian folks in!!! (Last 10 in the box maybe?)

I have not used them, nor tested them on the meter. Just saying on the surface, they appear to be legit.

mm

 
bruno2000 said:
I bought a bunch of MAT02s form a Chinese source for use in some SSL 9k preamps.  I did a spot check with my cheap DVM, and the hfe reading on them was anywhere from 640 to 730 (Ib=10uA Vce=3V), but the 2 “sides” were usually matched well, within less that 10 units.  Is there a better way to “select” these transistors for use in the 9k?

Transistor matching mini-HOWTO
(also usable as a rough way of telling if your MAT-02 is real or fake)

Build this circuit:

transistor_matcher_rev0.1.png


D1 is a red LED, or really any LED with a forward voltage of 1.5..2V when biased with a 4.7k resistor from a 9V supply. The 9V supply can be a battery, which'll last for 50-60 hours of continuous operation. A stabilized supply somewhere between 9 and 15V will do fine too. Put a multimeter set to its smallest voltage range between the collectors of the transistors (ie: where it says VOLTMETER). Keep the wires in the base circuit short, don't mount the switch further than a few centimeters from the transistors.

It helps to match the resistors, ie match R1 and R2, R4 and R5, R6 and R7. Just go through your parts drawer, measure the resistances and pick resistors that are close in value. If you're feeling particularly anal you can always install trimmers.

Principle of operation: this is a bog-standard differential long-tailed pair. D1 and R3 set the total current to approx 2mA or 1mA per transistor. Amplification is RC/(RE+re) or about 100x for the selected values.

Procedure:

0) If you're testing MAT-02s, first measure hFE like bruno2000 explains above. Check with the MAT-02 datasheet if these are above the minimum (>400, IIRC).

1) Connect transistors to the circuit, close SW1. The value on the meter is a representation of the difference in VBE. Again, if testing MAT-02s see if this value divided by the ~100x amplification falls within tolerance. I believe the worst grade of MAT-02 has a voltage offset over full VCE of +/-200uV, so readings between -20mV and 20mV are acceptable.

2) Open SW1. The reading now shows the difference in VBE (as measured in the previous step) plus a measure for the difference in hFE. The math here is a bit more involved, but if this reading is within 10mV of the previous one the device is within spec here too.

Now what if you don't want to test a MAT-02, but you have a bag full of TO-92 transistors and you want to find a closely matched pair? Then:

(optional step 0: measure hFE for all parts, and select (say) the 25% top-hFE transistors).

Step 1: Pick a transistor, any transistor, out of your pile. This will be your reference part. Label it, and insert it in the position for Q1. It stays there for the rest of the tests.

Step 2: For all other transistors, insert them one by one as Q2 and record the measured offset with the switch closed and opened.

Step 3: Parts for which the two measured offsets (switch open, switch closed) when compared to the reference transistor are closest, will also be close to each other. These are your matched pairs (or quads, if you're lucky).

Keep in mind that these transistor parameters are very temperature sensitive, to the tune of ~200mV output change per degree Celsius. I have found that after inserting a TO-92 with my bare fingers it takes upwards of a minute for its temperature to cool back down to ambient. Use gloves, take your time, and keep the measurement setup out of the wind. Measuring the difference between two parts cancels some of the temperature dependence, but still it's not a good idea to test a batch when the room temperature is changing a lot. Also, consider a ZIF socket if you want to sort through lots of transistors.

You can see how well the setup is matched (the aforementioned resistors, really), in the same way that you would with a spirit level. If you swap Q1 and Q2, in a balanced setup the sign of the measured values will change but the magnitude will remain the same.

Now, there are some major simplifications in this setup; if you need more accuracy you may want to go for something more like Samuel Groner's. However, for a balanced input pair the precision of the match is usually more important, and a simple plan as is sketched here will do just fine.

(An alternative way of matching transistors is to build a full SSL9k except for the input pair. Use sockets for the input pair, terminate the mic input with a 150R resistor, set gain to max by shorting out the gain pots. Measure the voltage between the outputs of the first stage (pin 6 of IC22 and IC29, before the 2u2 capacitor); a transistor pair which gets this voltage closest to zero will be closely matched).

JDB.
 
Just wondering what everyone is doing to step the 18v down to 15? I won't have the space to have two toroidals in my case. Or can the whole thing actually run of 18v.
 
jdbakker said:
bruno2000 said:
I bought a bunch of MAT02s form a Chinese source for use in some SSL 9k preamps.  I did a spot check with my cheap DVM, and the hfe reading on them was anywhere from 640 to 730 (Ib=10uA Vce=3V), but the 2 “sides” were usually matched well, within less that 10 units.  Is there a better way to “select” these transistors for use in the 9k?

Transistor matching mini-HOWTO
(also usable as a rough way of telling if your MAT-02 is real or fake)

Build this circuit:

transistor_matcher_rev0.1.png


D1 is a red LED, or really any LED with a forward voltage of 1.5..2V when biased with a 4.7k resistor from a 9V supply. The 9V supply can be a battery, which'll last for 50-60 hours of continuous operation. A stabilized supply somewhere between 9 and 15V will do fine too. Put a multimeter set to its smallest voltage range between the collectors of the transistors (ie: where it says VOLTMETER). Keep the wires in the base circuit short, don't mount the switch further than a few centimeters from the transistors.

It helps to match the resistors, ie match R1 and R2, R4 and R5, R6 and R7. Just go through your parts drawer, measure the resistances and pick resistors that are close in value. If you're feeling particularly anal you can always install trimmers.

Principle of operation: this is a bog-standard differential long-tailed pair. D1 and R3 set the total current to approx 2mA or 1mA per transistor. Amplification is RC/(RE+re) or about 100x for the selected values.

Procedure:

0) If you're testing MAT-02s, first measure hFE like bruno2000 explains above. Check with the MAT-02 datasheet if these are above the minimum (>400, IIRC).

1) Connect transistors to the circuit, close SW1. The value on the meter is a representation of the difference in VBE. Again, if testing MAT-02s see if this value divided by the ~100x amplification falls within tolerance. I believe the worst grade of MAT-02 has a voltage offset over full VCE of +/-200uV, so readings between -20mV and 20mV are acceptable.

2) Open SW1. The reading now shows the difference in VBE (as measured in the previous step) plus a measure for the difference in hFE. The math here is a bit more involved, but if this reading is within 10mV of the previous one the device is within spec here too.

Now what if you don't want to test a MAT-02, but you have a bag full of TO-92 transistors and you want to find a closely matched pair? Then:

(optional step 0: measure hFE for all parts, and select (say) the 25% top-hFE transistors).

Step 1: Pick a transistor, any transistor, out of your pile. This will be your reference part. Label it, and insert it in the position for Q1. It stays there for the rest of the tests.

Step 2: For all other transistors, insert them one by one as Q2 and record the measured offset with the switch closed and opened.

Step 3: Parts for which the two measured offsets (switch open, switch closed) when compared to the reference transistor are closest, will also be close to each other. These are your matched pairs (or quads, if you're lucky).

Keep in mind that these transistor parameters are very temperature sensitive, to the tune of ~200mV output change per degree Celsius. I have found that after inserting a TO-92 with my bare fingers it takes upwards of a minute for its temperature to cool back down to ambient. Use gloves, take your time, and keep the measurement setup out of the wind. Measuring the difference between two parts cancels some of the temperature dependence, but still it's not a good idea to test a batch when the room temperature is changing a lot. Also, consider a ZIF socket if you want to sort through lots of transistors.

You can see how well the setup is matched (the aforementioned resistors, really), in the same way that you would with a spirit level. If you swap Q1 and Q2, in a balanced setup the sign of the measured values will change but the magnitude will remain the same.

Now, there are some major simplifications in this setup; if you need more accuracy you may want to go for something more like Samuel Groner's. However, for a balanced input pair the precision of the match is usually more important, and a simple plan as is sketched here will do just fine.

(An alternative way of matching transistors is to build a full SSL9k except for the input pair. Use sockets for the input pair, terminate the mic input with a 150R resistor, set gain to max by shorting out the gain pots. Measure the voltage between the outputs of the first stage (pin 6 of IC22 and IC29, before the 2u2 capacitor); a transistor pair which gets this voltage closest to zero will be closely matched).

JDB.

This is great!  Thank you very much!
The AD spec on the MAT02 is hfe>500.
So how to pick the VERY best ones?  Highest hfe AND lowest offset with the switch closed AND the lowest change with the switch open?  What is the most important parameter for the 9k application?
Thanks again for the circuit!
Best,
Bruno2000
 
bruno2000 said:
The AD spec on the MAT02 is hfe>500.

That's for the MAT02E, right? The cheaper and more common 02F has hFE >400, I believe. Which ones do you have?

bruno2000 said:
So how to pick the VERY best ones?  Highest hfe AND lowest offset with the switch closed AND the lowest change with the switch open?  What is the most important parameter for the 9k application?

(emphasis mine)

That's a very good question.

It's a mic pre, so you want low noise. All things being equal (and assuming no die defects or contamination) higher hFE will give less current noise. So if you have several, pick the one with highest hFE. Having said that, a MAT-02 with hFE=400 will degrade the noise figure of the SSL9k by less than a dB compared to one with hFE=800, so most users won't notice or care.

More importantly, any offset between the transistors will result in DC across the gain pot, leading to scratchiness. A pair with the smallest offset will reduce this. If you have a bunch of MAT-02s and you feel like being very picky, use my circuit but replace R4/R5 with 100k resistors and increase V1 to 18V (or simply use the SSL9k PSU). This closely mimics the target circuit; keep SW1 open, smallest measured value = best match. (The ultimate control freak would now observe that any difference in R4/R5 affects this match too, and would remove R4/R5 from the measurement circuit and place them in the 9k as R106/R70, so that any offset travels with them. Oh, but then there is C55/C69 leakage mismatch to deal with, and ambient temperature in a racked pre will be higher than on the bench, and...).

Take a step back. People have been building the 9k for years with any old MAT-02 they could find, and I don't remember anyone ever complaining about pot scratchiness. If you have determined that your parts are most likely genuine MAT-02s and not rebadged inferior duals, just pick one, solder it in and be happy. The circuit I presented is mainly useful as a simple check to see if they're likely to be real, or for finding matched pairs in a pile of TO-92 transistors.

JDB.
 
jdbakker said:
bruno2000 said:
The AD spec on the MAT02 is hfe>500.

That's for the MAT02E, right? The cheaper and more common 02F has hFE >400, I believe. Which ones do you have?

bruno2000 said:
So how to pick the VERY best ones?  Highest hfe AND lowest offset with the switch closed AND the lowest change with the switch open?  What is the most important parameter for the 9k application?

(emphasis mine)

That's a very good question.

It's a mic pre, so you want low noise. All things being equal (and assuming no die defects or contamination) higher hFE will give less current noise. So if you have several, pick the one with highest hFE. Having said that, a MAT-02 with hFE=400 will degrade the noise figure of the SSL9k by less than a dB compared to one with hFE=800, so most users won't notice or care.

More importantly, any offset between the transistors will result in DC across the gain pot, leading to scratchiness. A pair with the smallest offset will reduce this. If you have a bunch of MAT-02s and you feel like being very picky, use my circuit but replace R4/R5 with 100k resistors and increase V1 to 18V (or simply use the SSL9k PSU). This closely mimics the target circuit; keep SW1 open, smallest measured value = best match. (The ultimate control freak would now observe that any difference in R4/R5 affects this match too, and would remove R4/R5 from the measurement circuit and place them in the 9k as R106/R70, so that any offset travels with them. Oh, but then there is C55/C69 leakage mismatch to deal with, and ambient temperature in a racked pre will be higher than on the bench, and...).

Take a step back. People have been building the 9k for years with any old MAT-02 they could find, and I don't remember anyone ever complaining about pot scratchiness. If you have determined that your parts are most likely genuine MAT-02s and not rebadged inferior duals, just pick one, solder it in and be happy. The circuit I presented is mainly useful as a simple check to see if they're likely to be real, or for finding matched pairs in a pile of TO-92 transistors.

JDB.

Thanks again for the "real world" comments.  I don't want to get stupidly picky for 1 dB of noise!  Maybe next week I'll build up the circuit with an 18V PS and run the tests.
The ones I bought have the part number printed on them (MAT02 EH) rather than laser engraved, so I question if they are genuine.  I am building at least 12 9k-style preamps, with my own board layout, so I bought 30 from one supplier at about $4 each including shipping.  Then I saw another supplier who had them for $2 each (including shipping) so I bought 25 more from them (I couldn't help myself, I'm a sucker for quantity discounts).  I figured I would run tests on all of them and sell what I didn't use (with full disclosure, of course) for what I paid.
BTW has anyone played with the SSL 4k transformerless preamps?  They use 2 LM394s in parallel.
Thanks again for the valuable education!
Best,
Bruno2000
 
Has anyone had any heat problems? I'm in the process of making a case up and just wondering if 4 of these pres with internal PSU will work in a 1ru case or will it need to be 2.
 
I've got 4 in 1U. Just position your PSU heat sinks under the vents if you are using a par-metal or similar case.
 
Sounds nice an easy, hopefully i can get a case thats vented then. Are you using this in a full rack? Just making sure that if i stick it in the middle of a rack, and drive it hard for a couple of hours it won't keel over and die
 
Yup. Mine have been on for weeks at a time. You can see my case layout here:

http://www.dibsreaction.com/2008/04/28/makin-mic-pres-the-ssl9k-4-channel-mic-preamp/

Even when the regs do shut down, they power right back up when they cool off. I haven't had that happen since putting sinks on them, though.
 
Can someone please tell me the spacings between the holes for external wiring.

Like for the inputs and outputs. Just so i can order some terminal blocks or molex connectors, i just dont think a ruler is an accurate tool.
 
Samuel Groner said:
Most recent info indicates that ADI will offer a replacement for the MAT-02 (and MAT-04), available later this year.
Samuel
Hey SG, good news, for sure.. is this online anywhere, or did you hear this from analog?
 
I've first read about it here: www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslutz-forum/451413-lm394-replacement.html

The ADI customer service confirmed things, but there's nothing on their website yet.

Samuel
 
Just wondering if anyone can tell me why not to twist the wires going from the gain switch to the pcb? I seem to remember reading that it actually created noise... Would this be the same case as if i used shielded cable to go to and from the pcb?
 
Hello,

    I would like this to be my next project, is the " Kieth DIY 9k preamp " pdf on the first page an accurate complete BOM ?  Is it used for the PCBs Gustav sells or is it for someone elses PCBs ? , I have the MAT02s, any other advice as to things needed and where to get them would be greatly appreciated, like the Rlog pots or stepped attenuator and resistors chart and such.
   
  Thanks,
            Chip
 

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