want to build PZM

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I can vouch for the WM-61A capsules. I've built several modified (for phantom power) TapeOp mics as well as a couple of Marik's modified ecm8000's with excellent results, IMO. As Scodiddly said, available from Digi-Key.

~ Charlie
 
Nice reading and interesting thoughts so far,
i'm going to order some of the Panasonics at Digikey and start some experiments soon.

At http://sound.westhost.com/project93.htm i saw that the only negative aspect of PZM might be their SPL handling?

My plan is to use them inside kickdrums too. I've been doing this with the Shure PZM on a lot of occasions. Do they also use the Panasonic capsules?

Or how can i reduce the risk of clipping with SPL's exceeding the 110 dB they (sound.westhost.com) state as critical?
 
Yep, the Linkwitz-mod seems the only way to go. I had some email-conversation with Mr ESP (Sorry, forgot his, name, Rod it must have been, friendly & helpful) and he didn't believe lowering the value of the drain-resistor (the resistor that 'biases' the capsule) would help enough or at all since the overloading would already have been in the capsule itself.

And indeed, the current RadioShack-boundary-model teamed up with the #93 circuit hasn't much SPL-handling.

Hey Tony, which capsule-models are you thinking of ? I'm not going to ask you to join for yet another order - so since I'd like some capsules myself too, shall I do a Digikey-order ? Just let me now what you'd like.

Bye,

Peter
 
great Peter,

i'd like 8 omni's and 8 cardios to match the Linkwitz-mod specs.
Do you want to order these for me?

Cheers,

Tony

btw, i just found out that for some reason are recent Mouser order never was processed??? I'll re-order everything tonight after my session.
 
[quote author="tony dB"]

My plan is to use them inside kickdrums too. I've been doing this with the Shure PZM on a lot of occasions. Do they also use the Panasonic capsules?

Or how can i reduce the risk of clipping with SPL's exceeding the 110 dB they (sound.westhost.com) state as critical?[/quote]

WM61 with Linkwitz can handle probably about 134db. One boundary of PZM increases level by 6db, and two by 12 db. I am not sure what is going on inside of kick, which is a circle, but you will be probably already approaching the capsules limit.

The Panasonics are excellent for what they are (i.e. their price/performance ratio), but by no means I'd consider them a "real Hi-Fi". If you are after really high quality, I'd suggest looking at something like SP4 or may be Oktava omni capsules. Check first if they won't pop with oomphs of the kick, though. Talk to Taylor at Sound room, or Brent for this matter.
 
Does anybody know a source for Panasonic WM-61A capsules in Germany or anywhere else in Europe?
 
from Rossi:
Does anybody know a source for Panasonic WM-61A capsules in Germany or anywhere else in Europe?
Wondering too (but OK, otherwise just ordering @ Digikey).

I've checked RS and they don't have them.

I've been wondering about those Monacor-capsules though - these are readily available here and might have suited types as well (dunno).
For instance their MCE-2000 comes to mind.

BTW & FWIW, some more Panasonic-data over here:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/components/rec_mic.htm
 
If anyone needs, I have 100 WM62APC capsules that I bought a while back when i was making/selling my 3d binaural mics. They are unused and most will probably go unused.

For a fun project try this. Get a pair of jabra eargels (designed for cell phone earpieces) and hot glue or silicone mount the capsules inside the eargels with the wire extended out the top. Make sure the diaphragm is about the same position as the diaphragm of an in ear type headphone.

Insert the mics into the ears and attach them to a suitable recorder (use at least 9v power source for good headroom) and record.

Try not to talk while recording, and try to keep the head straight and avoid moving it much. Whatever you record will also be recorded with the head related transfer function and when played back will be in amazing 3d.

The effect is far more accurate and profound than surround sound, or even that created by the Neumann dummy head mic. In fact, if you sit in the exact same position as the recording was made I challenge you to tell the difference between live and recorded sound. You will be able to tell which direction (up, down, in front, behind) the sound is coming from, and actually be able to hear the distance of the source.

In other words, if you were at a bar and did such a recording you would hear cars outside, people shooting pool behind you, the fan squeaking above you. You would even hear people shouting from across the street as though the sound was actually emananting from across the street.

If you have never experimented with this effect there is much fun to be had. The realism is frightening!

Be sure to use the omni capsules, and make sure they are inserted snugly into the ears. the more you talk or move your head during the recording the more you will compromise the effect. I did this at a party once and had people flipping out. We had someone sitting in one room with the mics, and let people in the next room listen live. Then everbody had a good time whispering and making interesting sound effects to the person wearing the mics. The best was when we blew the hair dryer on the person wearing them. In headphones, in the next room the realism was so amazing you could actually feel the heat on your neck. Very cool!

Shane
 
from Shane:
WM62APC capsules
That's a nice application !

For PZM and other 'non dummy head'-applications though, how suited would these be ? Couldn't find a datasheet on the link above. Tempted to just go by 'the suggested 61 originals' but please tell.
 
Hi Shane,

i did what you just said a few years ago and every word is true. I couldn't tell difference in recorded versus live happening.

I want some mike to build for live recording of rehearsals and think this would be just the trick i need. What do you ask for 6 WM62APC capsules?

Need to be send to Europe/Belgium.

Cheers,

Tony
 
I want some mike to build for live recording of rehearsals and think this would be just the trick i need. What do you ask for 6 WM62APC capsules?

Need to be send to Europe/Belgium.

Hi Tony,

If these types are as usable as the WM61A then do you still want the Digikey-stuff for the card.-capsules etc ? Would be glad to get this going.

Couldn't find any info about the WM62APC - does it have a comparable SPL-handling and/or can it be 'Linkw.-modded' for higher SPL-handling ? (important here for putting it in that kick - so is there a small trace on the WM62APC available that can be cut ?)

Thanks,

Peter
 
Here is the data sheet. I'll try to take a picture.

http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Panasonic/Web%20data/WM-62A,C,CC,K,B%20Series.pdf

I think the WM61 is 20-20k but the 62 rolls off at16. It worked for my stuff, but for the PZM the 61 may be better.

the Linkwitz mod should work on these too.

Also, I liked them better because they have two 3mm leads on the - and + contacts which made it easier to stick them in the eargels.

Shane
 
I think the WM61 is 20-20k but the 62 rolls off at16. It worked for my stuff, but for the PZM the 61 may be better.
OK thanks - while at it and at such prices I figure we'd better go for the (relatively) best (hmm, despite that it'd feel better to get them off your hands...). The WM61 is indeed specced as doing 20-20k. Page 1278 of the current Digikey-catalog mentions the WM62 -CC & -HNT as to 16k as you said, and FWIW at a few dB less S/N.

the Linkwitz mod should work on these too.

Also, I liked them better because they have two 3mm leads on the - and + contacts which made it easier to stick them in the eargels.
Concluding from this the WM61B might be more convenient then (i.s.o. of the WM61A). The -B has pins as well, but I wasn't sure it could be modded.
Digikey has this one as well and it's only +10% in price.
 
keep it going Peter, that was on top of the rest i still had planned...
I was only thinking of getting some of Shane for a dummy head as front end to my MDrecorder.
The others are for the PZM's

Cheers,

Tony
 
I just dug out the capsuels. The number is actually WM-62PCX.

They are thinner than the WM61s and it DOES look like the Linkwitz mod will be a bit more difficult. The negative terminal, is connected to the outer can on 3 of 4 sides. There is only a single trace to cut on the WM61s.

The WM61s would undoubtedly be better for the PZM application. If anyone wants to experiement with the 62pcx capsules PM me. I'll send a few. It'd be nice to see what other uses we can come up for these.

Originally I bought two packs of 100, and I seem to have lost one. I DO have the second pack which is completely full. As I said, I am not using these for anything so I can spare some in the name of science.

Shane
 
keep it going Peter, that was on top of the rest i still had planned...
I was only thinking of getting some of Shane for a dummy head as front end to my MDrecorder.
The others are for the PZM's

OK fine, all clear. Asked you some more specifics by email but take your time.


BTW, yesterday I opened up one of those current-model RadioShack boundary-mics (33-3022 I thought) and it turned out to be fairly easy to cut the grounding trace on the capsule with a sharp knife.

It uses a smaller capsule, about 5mm diam, but if needed a larger capsule could be made to fit.

I now have to find a reliable way to attach/solder a wire to the capsule-case - and I found the suggestion at Linkwitzlab.com to expose the PCB-edge. But that will be harder since it's a smaller sized capsule.
Anyone else has some neat tricks for this ? (I guess the recent talk here about soldering Alu-ribbons doesn't apply here :wink: )

Thanks,

Peter
 
Thank you everyone for the information!

PZMs are what I'm thinking about too at the moment.
I might come up with some suggestions and questions these days!

[quote author="Rossi"]Does anybody know a source for Panasonic WM-61A capsules in Germany or anywhere else in Europe?[/quote]

Several months ago I wrote you an email regarding the subject :grin:

I searched for sources on Panasonic mics in Germany and the ONLY source I could find which delivers to err... "end users" was Gudeco, but you got to buy 100pcs. The price several months ago was 125 Euro. If you're an end user, you've got to add 16% vat and about 10 Euro for shipping, which results in 155 Euro / 100 pcs. WM61a

The next best solution I could find for me in Germany was Digikey, which charges a lot for shipping, but in a group buy with shared costs it can become pretty cheap in the end.

Possibly I'm interested in buying 20-50 soon, but I'll only know in some weeks. For the moment, I still have some.

Cheers
Dominique, Berlin
 
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