Nice Vocal Chain under $200 - MOD RECIPE

[bellyflop]

I'm not sure where the MXL3000 fits into the product line, but it's 50% off at the moment. $99US today only. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid

 

[rodabod]

[quote author="Musician's Friend"]It has a transformer-coupled output that is very reminiscent of the circuit designs found in early British recording consoles[/quote]

:roll: :?

 

[buschfsu]

don't know but id be great to know if its a 797 capsule. im looking for one to perform a royer-ectomy on.

 

[bellyflop]

[quote author="buschfsu"]don't know but id be great to know if its a 797 capsule. [/quote]Is there an easy way to tell? I picked one up at lunch. :roll:
Based on rodabod's post, I'll be sucessfully recreating Revolver tonight. :thumb:

By the way, there were 17 left when they pulled mine from the warehouse.

 

[James HE]

I opened up my Dual MP last night and swapped opamps in one channel. The Dual MP has TL072 opamps (this one at least). The capacitors are different than what is in the single version. Nichicon and Panasonic in the Power supply section. Rubycons in the audio path, which was surprising. I didn't look to determine what series the are. They are green. So immediatly the dual seems to be of a little better quality componet wise, when it was on the market it sold for well over the cost of 2 MP's, this must be why. Internal power supply also. I removed the TL072's, which was a pain since all the leads are bent over on the board, ended up ruining them. no problem. I replaced them with OPA2132's. I got them as samples but didn't have any real plans for them, might as well pop them in the socket. So how does a $5 opamp sound in this circuit? I recorded some acoustic guitar with two MXL 603s (placed side by side) going into each channel and compared the difference. I swapped mics to be sure that the difference was not the mics. The modded channel seemed to have more clarity, and seemed more dynamic. I was happy with the change. No problem with just swapping them in. Need to get more sockets today, I only had 2 lying around.

I'll be happy to post the tests, but I don't have a way to host them at the moment. I'll look into that, but any suggestions?

 

[joe-electro]

[quote author="James HE"]I'll be happy to post the tests, but I don't have a way to host them at the moment. I'll look into that, but any suggestions?[/quote]

I'll host them for you on kenetek.com if you want. Just PM me.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[James HE]

Not yet. I'm going to order some JJ teslas. I could slap in some Mesa Boogie branded 12ax7's for now and see if there is a difference. I believe those are either russian or chineese and just tested to a tighter spec to work optimaly with the bias of the boogie amps, so might not be much different than the stock tubes. (these are chinesse I believe) I have at one point put one of those Mesa tubes in my single channel guy and didn't notice much difference (but it was an old tube I took out of my amp)

I'm thinking after I get more sockets tomorrow, and change the other channel, I'll then do an A/B with a Mesa tube in one channel before repacing the other. Then do the same thing when my tesla's come in. I probably wont mess with those rubycon electro's.

joe - i sent you a PM.

 

[James HE]

I sent joe two 30 second clips. Channel one and channel two. I'm not reveling which is moded or not at the moment. I couldn't devise a way to do a true blind test for myself, so I'm intrested in what you guys hear.

I'll let him post a link when he gets them up. Thanks joe!

I recorded these at 24bit 48k. I simply normalized them to get the volumes as close as possible without much fuss. (there is a slight difference, the gain settings on the two channels were the same) I rendered them at 16/44.1 to upload. If I had thought ahead, I would have just recorded them at 16bit 44.1 anyway. I will for the next tests with the new tubes when I get them.

This is me messing around with some open tuning stuff on my awsome sounding 80's washburn. (it records so well, you just point anything at it and it's decent) Two MXL 603's side by side as close as I could get them, about 18 inches away from the guitar, pointing roughly at the 14th fret. Into each channel of the dual MP. Conversion is a MOTU 828 MKII. I did switch mics to remove that from the equation, and the results were the same. I am just posting one of the takes.

Alright which is which? They are really close to me listening on my desktop speakers, what differences do you hear?

 

[James HE]

OK I figured some stuff, and I have the clips in a shared folder through my isp. I was on the phone with them trouble shooting my connection and finally got around to setting up an email account with those guys today coincidentally.

https://myhome.cavtel.net:7443/users/[email protected]/soundclips/


let me know if this link is working for sure. trying to get all the kinks worked out with my relativly new isp today.

 

[buschfsu]

im guessing ch 1 is modded???

 

[living sounds]

Channel one sounds high end. Great, really! Are the MXLs modded or stock?

 

[seavote]

both sound good? channel one seems more transparent. imho channel two seems "more tubey", more character, i like it better, in song context who knows?. hows that for vague noncommitment. i'll be anouncing my bid for the us presidentcy shortly.

 

[living sounds]

buttachunk,
there are several MC33078 availible from different manufacturers. Does it matter at all which one I use?

Also, what about using a silver mica as the capsule2FET cap?

Thanks for sharing this, I'll try it ASAP.

Gregor

 

[seavote]

butta. i got my mp studio today($30 from musicians friend). there are 6 ceramic caps,4 on the main pcb(all 104s, .04uf). the electrolytics are many various values.i will replace the ceramics with silver mica . but which electrolytics did you change in your circuit (i know what some function as but not all)and did you replace with a same valued component? any instruction or help is greatly appreciated by this newbie.

 

[James HE]

[quote author="living sounds"]Channel one sounds high end. Great, really! Are the MXLs modded or stock?[/quote]

The mics are stock.

[quote author="seavote"]both sound good? channel one seems more transparent. imho channel two seems "more tubey", more character, i like it better, in song context who knows?[/quote]

yeah they are both pretty good aren't they.

I could go on and on about the sound of the guitar itself, but I am biased, I am it's familiar. Also the 603's really take to that instrument in a nice way.

I'll post some more tests as things come in for me to try out. Need to get some tubes and I will also try MC33078's too. I will more closely follow buttachunks recipe in my single MP. Thank you butta for posting this, inspired me to try something with the MP's.

If you haven't listened and want to hear it "blind" don't look at what's below... :wink:















channel 2 is the modded one. It's great some picked channel 1 as the best, it's so easy for me to like the modded one just because I know I'm "supposed" to lol. Good to get that perspective. I do like both, but knowing what the guitar really is like, I think channel 2 is closer to the source, or at least as I hear it. In channel one the midrange is a little more agressive, which accentuates the harmonics I played in a nice way. The bass seems more focused in channel 2 to me, which I like.

 

[soundeq]

They are both DA*$&%N close, I consider myself to have a VERY trained ear, and worked for a VERY high end reverb company and my job was to just "listen" most of the time. Now I'm a freelance audio "engineer"...

Chanel one seems to have a touch more mids (some boxy stuff around 500-800 and a touch more around 1.5k)
Chanel two sounds a bit more scooped, however, they are both VERY close.

Either would be a fine recording, add a sprinkle of reverb, and a touch of compression to the track, and your in business!

 

[rodabod]

I thought the second file maybe sounded slightly better on the higher strings.

That said, it could have been a difference in performance, and it was subtle.

Maybe you could try recording again with a different mic. Maybe something less bright.

Cheers,

Roddy

 

[Emperor-TK]

I preferred channel one through my Sennheiser HD600's . Assuming equal performances and mic positioning, I thought track one was slightly clearer with a touch more attack. Channel two sounded like the strings were a little more dead. I also got a better sense of space on channel one.

-Chris

 

[James HE]

To clarify, there were two mics, MXL 603s side by side, the capsules as close as I could get them, they are pointing at the same angle. The guitar is about 16" back, maybe a little less. So the two clips are of the same performance. The mics aren't perfectly matched but they are damn close. when I swapped cables to check mic differences when doing this test, the "character" of the channels seemed to be retained, so I determined that the differences are more in the channels than the mics. (I hope that made sense :? )

I socketed the other channel tonite and replaced the opamps. Also put in some Mesa Boogie "Russian 2" 12AX7 tubes. (So basically Sovtek I guess) I meant to do one channel at a time, and record another A/B of the different tubes, but I got distracted, replaced both, put it all back together and racked it. Then I was too lazy to take it back out :green: . I had some tracking to do and employed the Dual MP right away. Sounds good with the new tubes, maybe a bit more compressed, like they are breaking up sooner. When I get the teslas in I'll defintly do an A/B.

 

[chester]

I find the modded one got alot more focused and spacey, tansparent sound. It also better reacts on dynamic changes. really sounds great in comparison to the orioginal one. good work. :thumb: