What the **** is this ?

[Igor]

What's so special in clones anyway?

Plenty of good stuff around. Even better than cloning anything real. Forssell Opto Compressor, NYD-EQ, Analag's designs, Pico Compressor.. Learn a little about tubes and it's not that hard to cook something up yourself.

Jaakko, that was cool. BTW, there's digitlally controlled analog as well.
I absolutely lost my head on this tuff. Instead of drinking Lafroaig and beers beetween
billiard, we wasting the time on chip programming with friend we were used to drink at billiard.
Trust me, pleasure from working proto worth this!

Many economists have offered theories about how financial crises develop and how they could be prevented. There is little consensus, however, and financial crises are still a regular occurrence around the world.

this place/scene is growing during financial crisis. seems to make some people nervous.


Quote from: analag on 2009-04-22, 21:06:22
Twice I have given Tat permission to design and build cases for my projects...should I avoid him with my upcoming stuff?

analag


why not form your own opinion?

Cool, some fresh notes. Absolutely aggree!

Well, now serious. If we have this issue,  there should be some effort in this
As Russian hacker-minded guy with respect to other's mind and feelings,
I'd like to know, what is possible and what is not.
My level of English is not very good and I am bit dislective.

Can someone summarise in plain English without bringing his personal traumas etc 2 things:

What is OK and what to be avoided from point of view of Ecology (let's go out of overused word "Moral")?
1).......
2)......
3)......

What is OK from lawyer's point of wiew?
1).......
2)......
3)......

Thanx

 

[desol]

Personally, i think pre-made cases and other business models should be banned from this forum. As this, imo...is in direct contradiction of the definition of what this forum represents and instead becomes a convenient place to do business. They can pay for their own hosting, etc...

Allowing businesses to play here is a no-no(again, imo), and could potentially attract unwarranted attention that the forum doesn't deserve.

This would insure that those who want to play, do it the hard way, etc...and those that do not, can purchase elsewhere. I like the idea of sharing and group-buys...and it should end at that.

 

[kml23956]

Could we hold off for a little while until he gets back from vacation?

You guys are starting to sound like mommy bloggers.    Snip, snip, snip. Whine. whine. whine.

 

[desol]

Well, i suppose...

Still tho...

 

[okgb]

says the guy with 46 posts

what's true is

people feel better with pro looking cases
and it's allot easier with pcbs

there has been growth recently but if it stopped
where it is now , there's still be enough
interesting projects to keep most busy for a while .

So don't steal lie or cheat , and help your fellow d.i.y.'er

 

[Skylar]

hmmm-kmhhh
NotTooOT
'uncle fester' said he would let me have files to do a home etch of the tg...if i removed my post about how the pcb was too much money for me...but now i get no response.

Honestly, the price for those TG PCBs was ridiculous.
shabtek, I remember seeing your post and then wondering why it disappeared!

I definitely don't mean any offense, but it's kind of sketchy to offer gerbers in exchange for deleting a post...and then to not even deliver on your end of the bargain!
I say, put your post back...oh, wait you can't! The thread is closed!


Some interesting developments happening around here...

 

[Sarcastic Sound]

this is an endless battle...

So don't steal lie or cheat , and help your fellow d.i.y.'er

YES!!! could not have said it better myself

 

[lofi]

taken from a secret forum where the "most sick guys" have ethics and respect to each others, and even to manufactured products still in production.
glad we are on topic again, which is ethic, stealing and lying imho

mind posting the details of that forum for us all to see and decide for ourselves or are you a member there as well?

Iain

 

[[silent:arts]]

mind posting the details of that forum for us all to see and decide for ourselves or are you a member there as well?

Hi Iain,

well, posting details of hidden areas wouldn't make them hidden anymore I guess.
and yes, I'm a member there as well - otherwise I wouldn't know.
this hidden area was installed for designers who didn't feel comfortable to publish their work for two reasons:
- not to get ripped off by manufactures / other people
- due to the respect to some manufactures and products still in production, with interesting designs to discuss and where we never would want to see the schematics in public for legal reasons
this hidden area (which is independent and not afflicted to this forum or prodigy pro) started exactly with this phoenix project, and at the beginning Mr. P. had access to it.
but he came late, since we already had done a small run of - I think - 30 PCBs for the hidden members.
than he started to lie, to get the PCB files for himself. since more than one year we know he sold them all over the world, and have been angry but quiet. I got quite a few support questions for this PCB (and I'm not the designer of it), and sometimes it was hard but necessary to redirect those poor buyers back to Mr. P. who can't help.
now with selling fully assembled units (I doubt it is the only one) it is enough.

as said before, I don't have any problems with him selling Cases, and if he makes a business out of it it is fine. I gave him my ok for the D-LA2A. there have been some problems in the beginning, since his first design just looked like the one another member build a few days before ...

he should really start selling his own designs, and not always copies and clones incl. manufacture Logos etc.
I didn't order my 33609 case with a NEVE logo on it, and the screenshots posted didn't show it.
and he should stop lying and steeling and selling other people designs.

this was my intention to start this thread, not stopping him selling cases or whatever.
if there are legal issues and discussions with this it is fine, my intention is more ethical.

 

[lofi]

the trouble i am having is the complaint about ethics when your working under the radar on some projects. Tat pushes the boat in my opinion, but to be honest I cant really see anybody needing 15 pcs at a time except to produce and sell (even if only to pay for a couple for them selves) so selling in those quantities leads to abuse, and I would only need one to copy any way.

Its about time this place started to get its act together, secret forums, dodgy dealings, back stabbing ... its just not nice.

All pcbs should have DIY use only, No support offered printed on them

Not one single face panel offered here should contain manufacturers logos or symbols, they should not be named in such a way that could cause confusion as to the maker or colored to assign heritage.

I dont buy into all of the make it look authentic, thats crap, make it pretty yes, but mostly make it mine. I'm proud of the bits I have made, I dont want somebody mistaking them for a manufacturers product.

I apologise if i sound pissy, but theres complaints about whats happening behind closed doors, we cant comment on that as we havent full access to all of the info, only the snippets realeased.

Tat, theres some very serious allegations laid against you here, So why dont the pair of you go back into your secret areas and sort it out. I dont want to loose Tats Cases or Volker et al's pcb's, too valuable resource. But I wont be buying PCB/Case tie ins from now on, same with other parts.

Iain

 

[radiance]

...this hidden area was installed for designers who didn't feel comfortable to publish their work .....

It just does not make sense...As I understand it, this secret forum was meant for designers, meaning people who are interested in learning electronics.
Why allow acces to a person like Tat, who AFAIK, never showed any interest in learning electronics.
If you ask me, this is asking for trouble. You should have seen this coming from miles away.....

 

[lofi]

in theory a designer designs, so Tat designs a case, 'find a different type of pot, that one wont work in this case due to space requirements etc'

but somebody must have moderator privileges, those should have been used.

looking forward to the 51X stuff, just worried that all this closed door stuff is helping to kill the DIY ethos of this place.

 

[jackies]

Anyhow...
I think the consensus on this has to be that selling cases and parts is good and selling brand named diy gear for profit is wrong. No question about that!
In my turn, I just wanted to share some insight, regarding the attitude towards copyright and respecting other's work and suchlike matters...
See, many of you were fortunate enough to be born in so-called "west" and may be oblivious to the fact that there is other, inferior different sort of people, who weren't. Things that come naturally to you, like the aforementioned respect for the copyright law, didn't exist for us at all, until recently. I was born in the USSR, so probably was Igor, Purusha is evidently from the former Soviet bloc. You, as a "westerner" may live in your own house, or even, heck, use software that you actually paid for. But for many people it's a novelty concept. Looking back at my life, I must say, it was misguiding to a great extent, growing up under communism, then seeing it being replaced by corruption under the guise of democracy. By no means I'm trying to justify whatever was done with whatever designs and whatnot, all I'm saying that in a different culture/time/upbringing it may not look even half as malignant as it does here and now..
You know, most soviet electronic designs were blatant ripoffs of foreign stuff. It was much easier in a total copyright vacuum. I worked at a factory producing pro video cameras, betacam type, they were 100% clones of their SONY counterpars. Funny thing, I spent a great deal of time sandpapering those curved aluminum panels, that were machined from a solid block of aluminum, to make them smooth and round, while the original sony parts were plastic molds.. That's how we did it in the CCCP!.. And what about the one and only russian VCR, the infamous BM-12!!! What a disaster that was! A clone of one of the very first Panasonic models, it was ridiculously huge and complicated. My mother worked at the factory that produced it, she said the failure rate was 300%, i.e. each vcr had to be fixed three times before it could even leave the factory.. And one day she said, when a dude who was working on one, went for a coffee or smoke or something, they took the top of the case off his table and replaced it with the top from the actual Panasonic unit, which they had there for reference. When the unsuspecting engineer returned from his break and proceeded with putting the top on, he was very perplexed because a couple screws just didn't fit right, to the sheer amusement of his colleagues...
Anyway, just a little essay on what it's like, being a soviet retard person.
Cheers and keep up the DIY spirit!

 

[radiance]

in theory a designer designs, so Tat designs a case, 'find a different type of pot, that one wont work in this case due to space requirements etc'

I guess those people on that secret forum where perfectly able to design their own cases, probably much better than Tat ever will...but you're right, in theory Tat's a case designer.

 

[lofi]

still leaves a bad taste in your mouth though doesn't it

 

[okgb]

or a case copier

well , cut & paster

 

[Igor]

@jackies: thanx man, you described it exactly as it was. I had BM-12 at my house BTW.
Yes, all Russian electronics were total ripoff from western stuff, do you remember KM1533 series IC's btw?
At last classes of school, there was something like "professional practice", I was passing the "cource"
at Integral factory where these chips were manufactured, my friend was passing same cource at
Horizont factory which manufactured TV's, if you remember....
I discovered absolutely new word here in Israel, it was hard completely re-build whole life view concept.
My design stuff, about 130-150 units, working in Israel and worldwide.

As long as I selling stuff at this forum for pocket money, have to say some words.

Sometimes, people asked to put "original" logos on my mixbuss compressors or write Pultec instead Igor on
mastering stepped EQ's... I not interested to get advertisement to other guys, so than it remained I.J.Research.
For logos, there's cloners, and mess with them, it is my point.
At this time, I have enough my own stuff, and even if my mixbuss was a way far from either Gyraf/SSL,
it is out of production.

I was working at one studio where 80% of outboard and full format mixing console were built by my hands.
Console's EQ's were influenced from Sontec/Massenburg design, I changed some things at my taste,
than Sontec8 (4 band) and stereo Sontec (5 band) kits came out.
I covered design time from effort on PCB's, but it was really small money
compared to r&d time involved.

Is this ripoff? BTW, if some people using these EQ's will say some words about sound, wellcome!

We needed drum compressor. Tweaked up 1176 with Neve output stage, dual release option and 2:1 ratio
was good on other things, but we wanted drum comp.
I simply did not wanted to pay a lot of money for 33609, and did my own PCB design which is
btw can be easyer assembled than original one and imho has better ground layout.

Cannot say this is commercial ripoff for effort as well. Same way, many people here have a fun using their 33609 clones,
and it looks for me 100% ecological. Never seen these 33609's sold to "friends",
because we had aggreement with Purusha not to sell more than 2 stereo sets in one hands.

After reading some posts at this thread, I think all this logo and cloners stuff should be totally avoided.

From point of business view, and my experience with him, Purusha is great.
Don't think there's any other person who can offer same excellent service.
I jumped at this thread only by reason I want him to stay here.
Maybe, some things has to be fixed.
OK than, if 10 boxes from 1000 had logos on them, ask him stop doing this.


BTW, AFAIK, poor self-etcher never was asked to remove his post from TG thread, and whole thing gone due to guys who
wanted to clone this thing in serious qty's, and were disappointed by price of PCB's (it became not worth for them).

 

[clintrubber]

It's impossible to come up with a solution that will please everybody.
And I'm not suggesting there should be any punishment.

But as lofi said, this all all give a bad taste in your mouth.

I'd very much appreciate it that I would be less 'confronted' with the imho too eager selling threads.

That would for me translate to:

* no thread stickies for sellers that are making money from it beyond a small markup

* no uppercase shouting in thread titles anymore

People still wanting to buy can then do so, but it leaves the rest of us with a 'cleaner' screen.

Note I'm serious about these suggestions. The combination of uppercase & moneymaking seriously irritates me, while I'm the easiest guy on the block. But let's first await the return of the son of the case-crook, deserves a chance to reply, despite it was said there wouldn't be reading of this anymore (which I doubt).


Thanks,

 Peter

 

[rodabod]

* no thread stickies for sellers that are making money from it beyond a small markup

I totally agree. This pisses me off every time I go to the Blackmarket threads as you have to scroll through the same posts about clone cases each time.

One single "Shop" sticky would suffice which could contain each of these other stickies. It's bad enough having stickies and additional "update" threads from the same user.

 

[[silent:arts]]

I just deleted the response I was writing the last hour ...
all is spoken out.

in theory a designer designs, so Tat designs a case, 'find a different type of pot, that one wont work in this case due to space requirements etc'

true

but somebody must have moderator privileges, those should have been used.

I don't have here, I didn't had there. Once we knew his business he was banned from the "hidden place" by the moderators.

looking forward to the 51X stuff, just worried that all this closed door stuff is helping to kill the DIY ethos of this place.

well, we have already seen disappearing designs and designers due to similar issues.
we already have a project with a "hidden" schematic due to similar feelings (Poor Man).
both has nothing to do with hidden areas or closed doors.

and the 51X stuff is fully open (except I won't post backplane gerbers for sure).
if Sahib publishes his Metal work design is his decision.

I respect the idea of non profit in this forum, and with this post all my PCB sales posts in the black market are closed. I'm working on a solution like a web shop to make them available again - outside this place. this might take some time.

This will be a business, since you can't open a web shop without a business (at least in germany).